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Glossary entry

Portuguese term or phrase:

"estante"

English translation:

"copy holder".. "copy stand"

Added to glossary by airmailrpl
Mar 23, 2011 21:31
13 yrs ago
3 viewers *
Portuguese term

"estante"

Portuguese to English Art/Literary Printing & Publishing typesetting
This is from a piece nostalgically listing processes and materials used during the pre-digital age of typesetting:

"que falta me faz o cheirinho da tinta [...] quando o compositor nos vinha gabar o que tinha [...] quando a **“estante”** não era um sitio para pôr livros mas uma tábua vertical onde se punha o original a compor…"

is this a stand or an easel of some sort? a case? I have done a fair bit of research on the term but would appreciate input from someone with more knowledge of the process. I'm hoping it's something that will work in the same way as the Portuguese...

thanks in advance (PT Portuguese)
Proposed translations (English)
5 +2 "copy holder".. "copy stand"
5 Bookshelf
4 -1 shelf
Change log

Mar 30, 2011 11:54: airmailrpl Created KOG entry

Discussion

coolbrowne Mar 25, 2011:
That is not the point at all To be clear, the word "estante", as used in this text fragment means both "bookcase" and "copy stand". And all those variations do not contribute one iota because, of course, it cannot be translated by itself, as it would lose its unique role in this piece. For an insight from the other side, a hastily improvised example:

Ah! the days when an "issue" was not a problem or question but something put forth, such as a proposal, a magazine issue, blah-blah-blah.

The author bemoans the transformation of the noun "issue", from the verb to issue (to put forth, to emit), via political doublespeak (better something opaque than such negative words as "problem" and "question", eh?). The press drank up the novelty, and the populace was all too happy to parrot. Now everybody "has issues". It’s hard to translate into Portuguese: the word "edição" did not suffer the same abuse; literal "translation" would butcher the meaning. One must seek a reasonable variation of (for instance) "edição", having another distinct alternate meaning, give oneself somepoetic license/licence, and construct a similar sentence expressing that dismay. Fixation on a single word won't cut it.
airmailrpl Mar 25, 2011:
copy shelf Metal document holder/copy shelf/copy stand/book stand | ebay
ebay: Find Metal document holder/copy shelf/copy stand/book stand in the ...
www.cgi.ebay.com › ... › Desk Accessories › Copy & Document Holders

China other racks shelf Exporter
Features Specifications: YD-168 Copy Shelf 1. Material: 2mm iron sheet, 2. The sizes of the product: 31*23CM 3. Package: 1pc/ Bubble bags/box, 20box/carton, ...
www.p-wholesale.com/subcat/13/586/other-racks-shelf-p3.html

InfoWorld - Feb 8, 1982 - Google Books Result
Vol. 4, No. 5 - 52 pages - Magazine
... but you can fold back the spiral- bound, 5 X 6-inch manual to the index and prop it up on the Apple Ill's handy copy shelf for easy reference. ...
www.books.google.com/books?id=eD4EAAAAMBAJ... -
coolbrowne Mar 25, 2011:
I'm aware of the "HIDE" button, thank you It's not the first time I have used it. It's my standard policy to hide my answer when I am found in error or even when a better answer appears (if everybody did we would have a lot less confusion and a fewer plain wrong posts). However, when there are comments, one might delay that action for a day or so, as a courtesy to the respective authors, so they can have a chance see the reason for hiding the answer they have disagreed (or agreed) with.
Lucy Phillips (asker) Mar 25, 2011:
I really appreciate all the help on this one. I decided to go with "shelf" in the end. I found a few references to a 'copy shelf' through Google (granted they are much less common that copy stand or holder). But this allows the original idea to be conveyed in English, and I felt that the use of inverted commas also allowed a certain amount of freedom in that the reader might be expected to assume that this was in fact a English rendering of a Portuguese term...
airmailrpl Mar 25, 2011:
more "Linotype era" words which may not translate Here are some more "Linotype era" words which may have other meanings in Portuguese and which may NOT be able to have both of their meanings translated to English:

chapas
cíceros
caseados
pautas
clichês
pacotes
componedores
prelo
airmailrpl Mar 25, 2011:
"copy holder/stand" IS a suitable answer contrary to coolbrowne's afirmation,
"copy holder/stand" IS a suitable answer to "estante uma tábua vertical onde se punha o original a compor"

with respect to "estante um sitio para pôr livros" a Translator's Note/footnote would resolve the dilemma in English.
airmailrpl Mar 25, 2011:
withold => "Hide" >so I am withholding it; no point in adding to confusion.

One withholds a suggested answer by hitting the "HIDE" button
Carlos Quandt Mar 25, 2011:
copy holder Each compositor on receiving his take places it on the copy-holder of his linotype or monotype machine and begins composing it into type. The linotype machine consists of a keyboard not unlike that of the typewriter, which actuates a magazine containing matrices or countersunk letter molds, together with a casting mechanism for producing lines or bars of words. By touching the keys, the compositor releases letter by letter an entire line of matrices, which are mustered automatically into the assembling-stick at the left and above the keyboard, ready to be molded into a line of type.
http://www.speakingwriting.com/NewsWriting/The-Mechanical-De...

The pieces of copy that were distributed among compositors were known as "takes."
http://www.oldandsold.com/articles10/trades-4.shtml

Linotype Keyboard and Copy Holder Photo...
www.hmdb.org/marker.asp?marker=29511
coolbrowne Mar 24, 2011:
Neither "bookcase" nor "copy stand" In fact the text implies, correctly, that bookcase is the most common sense of the word "estante" in Portuguese, but the word bookcase itself not the answer. That it is part of the explanation is no excuse for suggesting it as a translation, so I am withholding it; no point in adding to confusion. By the same token "copy holder/stand" is not a suitable answer. It refers to the opposite side of the comparison, that about which the question is not. In order to translate, one needs to start from this meaning and seek another of the many meanings of the word stand, to craft a similar comparison. For example:

...when a stand was not a booth where one displays wares for sale but a vertical platform that held the text to be typeset...

Granted, it lacks the clarity of the original: the primary meaning of "estante" is bookcase, stand being much more specialized (classic typesetting, music, etc.). That isn't the case with the noun "stand" and the concept of a merchant stall (or other meanings of the word stand, for that matter). Sic transit gloria mundi. Good translation can be hard. And that is why this is such a good question.
Carlos Quandt Mar 23, 2011:
Linotype machines
the copy used to be in front of the composer, above the keyboard, so I guess it could be called an "easel" (I have no refs for that)
Here's a picture: http://www.prepressure.com/images/prepress_history_linotype_...

Proposed translations

+2
42 mins
Selected

"copy holder".. "copy stand"

"estante" => "copy holder".. "copy stand"

copy holder > porte-copie
In English, it is called a "copy holder", a "copy stand" or a "paper stand". DEF – A device for holding copy that is being typed, typeset, .
www.proz.com › KudoZ home › English to French › Other -

Copy Stands - Copy Stand, Book Stands, Book Rests, Book Holders
A copy stand will allow you to take any writing you have to do just a little bit more seriously, helping you to find just the right words even more quickly.
www.levenger.com/pagetemplates/product/content.asp?...559..... -

Copy Stand
Think of a copy stand as a very specialized tripod, and think of copystand work as specialized macrophotography of still things. Once you've done that, ...
www.marietta.edu/~mcshaffd/macro/copy.html

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2011-03-23 22:57:01 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Asker: thanks airmail - now the question is how to make the book comparison work in English?!

Some things are not possible. This ones does not seem to be possible - Maybe a footnote??

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2011-03-23 23:12:42 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Try looking in here

[PDF]
Glossary of Printing Terms
Pica: Unit of measure in typesetting. One pica = 1/6 inch. Picking: Printers nightmare that ... Stet: A proof mark meaning let the original copy stand. ...
www.murrprintingbeaufort.com/pdf/glossary.pdf

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day8 hrs (2011-03-25 05:57:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

DOU 31/12/1945 - Pág. 43 - Seção 1 - Diário Oficial da União
jusbrasil.com.br -
1 serra elétrica; 1 caldeira- para- fundição de metal linotipo; 1 Vim° manual; 6 . carros para paginação; 1 prelo; estantes de composição; ...
www.jusbrasil.com.br/diarios/.../dou-secao-1-31-12-1945-pg-... -

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day8 hrs (2011-03-25 06:27:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Publicação - SICON : Senado Federal - Portal de Legislação
senado.gov.br -
a) Turma de Linotipo. - Compor 1.000 linhas, corpo 7x126, medida de 12 cíceros; ... assim como limpeza e organização das mesas e estantes de distribuição. ...
www6.senado.gov.br/legislacao/ListaPublicacoes.action?id=118401 -
Note from asker:
thanks airmail - now the question is how to make the book comparison work in English?! Oh, a good image here, I think: http://www.prepressure.com/images/prepress_history_compuwriterII.jpg
Peer comment(s):
agree Mark Robertson : I prefer copy stand.
2 mins
I do as well
agree Salvador Scofano and Gry Midttun
7 mins
agradeço
disagree Marlene Curtis : copy stand doesn't convey the "estante" (book) conotation at all. I agree with Lucy's observation above...
2 hrs
It is definitely NOT a shelf. The copy is NOT hung on a shelf. Some things are not possible. This ones does not seem to be possible to find an English word which works for both
agree Carlos Quandt : "copy holder" was the term in English way back when > Routine checkups should be as much a part of Linotype operation as seeing that metal is in the metal pot and copy on the copy holder. ... www.linotype.org/OnLineDocs/GenMaint/GMRoutine.html
1 day 2 hrs
agradeço
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "I have to give the points to this answer for all the really helpful points it raised and all your research - I arrived at the decision to use 'shelf' but only after finding it as an alternative suggestion to mean copy holder or stand. Many thanks."
4 mins

Bookshelf

...
Peer comment(s):
neutral Mark Robertson : Isn't that what the source text says estante doesn't mean?
1 min
disagree airmailrpl : "uma tábua vertical" makes for a strange Bookshelf....definitely not a "uma tábua vertical onde se punha o original a compor" - quite hard to read the text to be typeset if it is horizontal
28 mins
http://www.sogar.com.au/verticalbookcase
agree Paula.V
46 mins
Grato, Paula.
Something went wrong...
-1
10 mins

shelf


A shelf, a vertical board.
Note from asker:
Hi Marlene, I've found a few references for copy shelf, so hopefully I can make this work.
Peer comment(s):
disagree airmailrpl : "uma tábua vertical" => a vertical board => makes for a strange shelf - most shelves have horizontal boards..where is Mark's reference??
24 mins
See Mark's reference for a vertical board...
Something went wrong...
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