Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
en leur "rachetant" leurs péchés
English translation:
"redeeming" their sins
Added to glossary by
Tony M
Mar 16, 2015 11:39
9 yrs ago
French term
en leur "rachetant" leurs péchés
French to English
Social Sciences
Religion
Catholicism
Hello,
In the source text below there is a play on words with “rachetant” but I can’t make out the specific meanings in this context (there is no hlepful wider context other than the above section of text)? To pay back, to buy back, to make up for, to redeem, to pay for, (to pay off?) are some of the possible meanings I think it could have.
Source Text (Figaro Magazine, an article published in 2014, on "pardon" ceremonies in Brittany): Officialisé au XVe siècle dans le dictionnaire trilingue breton-français-latin, le pardon désigne une fête religieuse ou un pèlerinage vers un lieu saint consacré par la foi chrétienne. Auparavant, il faisait uniquement référence aux indulgences consenties aux pécheurs par les papes : une sorte d’amnistie de leurs fautes en échange d’une démarche pénitentielle (aumône, jeûne, pèlerinage). L’occasion pour l’Eglise, malmenée par l’émergence de nombreuses hérésies au milieu du Moyen Âge, de se réconcilier avec le peuple catholique : en leur « rachetant » leurs péchés sans qu’ils aient forcément à se rendre au péril de leur vie et de leur portefeuille jusqu’au tombeau du Christ à Jérusalem mais en se contentant de vénérer dans des lieux proches de chez eux une figure sanctifiée, elle redynamisa chez ses fidèles une foi populaire déclinante.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks
Rebecca
In the source text below there is a play on words with “rachetant” but I can’t make out the specific meanings in this context (there is no hlepful wider context other than the above section of text)? To pay back, to buy back, to make up for, to redeem, to pay for, (to pay off?) are some of the possible meanings I think it could have.
Source Text (Figaro Magazine, an article published in 2014, on "pardon" ceremonies in Brittany): Officialisé au XVe siècle dans le dictionnaire trilingue breton-français-latin, le pardon désigne une fête religieuse ou un pèlerinage vers un lieu saint consacré par la foi chrétienne. Auparavant, il faisait uniquement référence aux indulgences consenties aux pécheurs par les papes : une sorte d’amnistie de leurs fautes en échange d’une démarche pénitentielle (aumône, jeûne, pèlerinage). L’occasion pour l’Eglise, malmenée par l’émergence de nombreuses hérésies au milieu du Moyen Âge, de se réconcilier avec le peuple catholique : en leur « rachetant » leurs péchés sans qu’ils aient forcément à se rendre au péril de leur vie et de leur portefeuille jusqu’au tombeau du Christ à Jérusalem mais en se contentant de vénérer dans des lieux proches de chez eux une figure sanctifiée, elle redynamisa chez ses fidèles une foi populaire déclinante.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks
Rebecca
Proposed translations
(English)
3 +7 | redeeming their sins | Tony M |
4 +1 | by "relieving them" from their sins | Daryo |
3 +1 | by forgiving their sins | Jonathan MacKerron |
Change log
Mar 23, 2015 18:10: Tony M Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+7
42 mins
Selected
redeeming their sins
I don't really see how you can get away from the dedicated term, even though it is a pity to lose the mercenary play on words in the FR.
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Note added at 2 heures (2015-03-16 14:15:00 GMT)
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It always seems to me that 'to redeem' is used "the wrong way round", more so in FR perhaps than in EN, though even in EN, it sometimes seems backwards. If you have a 'money off' coupon, the shop 'redeems' it for you in return for some goods.
In the same way, the Church (acting as subcontractor for God) 'redeems' your 'sins' in return for a bag of grace — and if you happen to hand them a wad of cash along with your sins, you get an even bigger bag of grace.
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Note added at 2 heures (2015-03-16 14:16:14 GMT)
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We had this very discussion not so long back on KudoZ, about 'redeem' in another, more commercial context.
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Note added at 2 heures (2015-03-16 14:15:00 GMT)
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It always seems to me that 'to redeem' is used "the wrong way round", more so in FR perhaps than in EN, though even in EN, it sometimes seems backwards. If you have a 'money off' coupon, the shop 'redeems' it for you in return for some goods.
In the same way, the Church (acting as subcontractor for God) 'redeems' your 'sins' in return for a bag of grace — and if you happen to hand them a wad of cash along with your sins, you get an even bigger bag of grace.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 heures (2015-03-16 14:16:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
We had this very discussion not so long back on KudoZ, about 'redeem' in another, more commercial context.
Note from asker:
Thanks very much |
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you all for your help"
+1
41 mins
by "relieving them" from their sins
en leur "rachetant" leurs péchés
=
the Church is not "buying back" sins from sinners, the Church is taking the sins from the sinners, relieving them from the burden of their sins. (it's the logic of that religion, don't start screaming "nonsense" is you don't believe it)
by "relieving them" from their sins
here "en rachetant" implies a very peculiar kind of "transaction" - nothing to do with earthly trading [although it could end up in money changing hands in exchange for "spiritual" goods - but it's not supposed to be that way]
=
the Church is not "buying back" sins from sinners, the Church is taking the sins from the sinners, relieving them from the burden of their sins. (it's the logic of that religion, don't start screaming "nonsense" is you don't believe it)
by "relieving them" from their sins
here "en rachetant" implies a very peculiar kind of "transaction" - nothing to do with earthly trading [although it could end up in money changing hands in exchange for "spiritual" goods - but it's not supposed to be that way]
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Tony M
: That's really the whole point of 'redeeming' — 'buying' your way back into a state of grace; It always feels like the wrong way round, but we say 'your sins will be redeemed'; cf. the system of paid 'indulgences' etc.
28 mins
|
the ways of thinking of religion/religious people is something special, nothing of this world/down to Earth (as they claim it themselves) this "buying" is of a rather weird kind, especially given that the Church is in actual fact "selling" grace
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agree |
Helen Hagon
: I rather like the ambiguity of this phrase, although I would say 'relieving them of their sins'. It implies that they would feel a sense of relief afterwards, as well as hinting at the common expression, 'to be relieved of your hard-earned money'.
53 mins
|
the ambiguity with 'to be relieved of your hard-earned money' is not supposed to happen // the "relieving of sins" is supposed to be obtained by good deeds, not by money. Thanks!
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neutral |
AllegroTrans
: not the correct dedicated term, as TM correctly states
10 hrs
|
+1
5 hrs
by forgiving their sins
People can redeem their own sins, but it is Christ who forgives them.
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