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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

Aujourd'hui, maman est morte (Camus)

English translation:

Today, my mother died

Added to glossary by Yvonne Gallagher
Oct 23, 2021 14:27
2 yrs ago
73 viewers *
French term

Aujourd'hui, maman est morte (Camus)

French to English Art/Literary Poetry & Literature
Posting this because I read an old article in the New Yorker about the translation of Camus' "The Stranger," and it just baffles me that there was ever any disagreement about how to translate this line. Why is it hard???

Article: https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/lost-in-translat...

I'm interested in hearing arguments for the various options. I personally don't see how it could be anything other than "Today, mom died" (or "mum died" for UK translators). But apparently there was heated debate! What's your opinion?
Proposed translations (English)
4 +7 Today, my mother died
4 +2 Mother died today.
3 -1 It was today that dear mother passed away; in the here and now, mom is no longer with us
References
First paragraph of novel
First paragraph of English translation by Matthew Ward
Change log

Oct 30, 2021 01:42: Yvonne Gallagher Created KOG entry

Discussion

Eliza Hall (asker) Oct 27, 2021:
"Today" first; no "my" I agree with Yvonne and others who argued for putting "Today" first. It's a slightly odd structure in FR as well as in EN; Camus could've written "Maman est morte aujourd'hui," and that would've felt a bit more natural/less stilted, but he chose not to. I would respect his choice, as a translator: "Today, Mom/Mother/Maman died. Or maybe yesterday, I don't know."

And I would omit the possessive pronoun for the same reason: Camus could've included "ma" in his sentence, but he chose not to.

I don't love keeping "Maman" in French. Why not just use the word that an adult man would use to name or address his mother: Mom (US), or Mum (most other EN-speaking countries)? And "Maman" doesn't sound distant in French, so why use a more formal or distancing word such as "Mother"?
Conor McAuley Oct 26, 2021:
Mum's the word! https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/a22087/irish_peopl...
SafeTex Oct 25, 2021:
@ Conor "One on the way out the door, haha"

Would that be a revolving door by any chance?🤣🤣🤣
SafeTex Oct 25, 2021:
Why I like "maman" Hello

As I've said a couple of times before, we can keep "foreign" words where they add to the flavour of the book and are clear for English speakers, and "maman" is not therefore ruled out.
I also feel it's like a proper noun (I know it isn't of course), in that for nearly all children of whatever age, they don't call their mothers by their first names but use "maman" (in French) or "mum" or whatever in English speaking countries. So as it is used like a proper noun and we don't normally translate proper nouns, I think we can leave it. Note that "Mother" etc. is often capitalized like in "Dear Mother", suggesting a proper noun
Also, bearing in mind that the English version will be read by anglophones over the world, you avoid having to make a choice between Mum, mother, Ma, Mom etc. which as you can see on this forum, is not so easy.
Yvonne Gallagher Oct 25, 2021:
Mammy, Mam, Ma https://www.dailyedge.ie/twitter-mentions-of-mother-1611834-...
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mam
https://www.answers.com/Q/Do_Irish_people_say_'mom'...
Typically Mam or Ma is used by Irish people. Ma would usually be considered more working class. Smaller children say Mammy, though in rural areas and among women, Mammy can continue to be used into adulthood. Few people say Mum, which is more of an English idiom, though it can be occasionally be heard in middle-class families especially in suburban areas. Mom has begun to creep in with the current generation of young parents being more Americanised in their speech.

https://books.google.ie/books/about/The_Mammy.html?id=HjDaNm...
Steve Robbie Oct 25, 2021:
@Yvonne When I say it's flat, I mean it has a flatness of tone. I think that rhythm what the original translator was aiming to conserve when he wrote "Mother died today", with those words in that order. Personally I think it's hard to improve on that translation. I don't think anything is gained by writing "maman" in the translation, and if none of our varieties of English conveys the exact tone of Maman, the best option is to lean towards an option that makes him sound more distant. After all, this novel, which famously starts with a death, climaxes with a death and ends with a death, is about a character who, faced with life, chooses to embrace death, in a way that's both bleak and absurd. He's a failure of a man.
Conor McAuley Oct 25, 2021:
What you say about "Mum" and Ireland is quite simply incorrect.

The other parts of your post I can't be bothered debating, but contain substantial inaccuracies and/or opinion passed off as fact.
Yvonne Gallagher Oct 25, 2021:
Maman Someone reading this in English who has no French is likely to substitute Mommy, Mom, Mum and Mama, all of which I think are childish. I also forgot to include "Mammy" or "Ma(m)" as many of us use in Ireland for our mothers. "Mum" is considered to be quite snobby and/or British and not used by the working class. Do remember that Meursault is not a colonial overlord but an impoverished "pied-noir" so would be unlikely to say "Mother". And, while he shows no signs of grief at the funeral (which he takes time off work to attend), he does think about his mother sometimes and feels some sort of kinship with her, e.g. when faced with his own execution he thinks about her feelings in the retirememt home when surrounded by death.
Yvonne Gallagher Oct 25, 2021:
@ Steve I think there is a case to be made for keeping the French position of "Today", even though it isn't the normal English structure so foreignises to some extent. However, that is what Camus wrote and he could have placed it at the end in French also. Is this really intended to be a "flat statement" since he immediately casts doubt on its accuracy?
"Today" sets the tone for Meursault's existentialist living-in-the-moment (though he does consider the past and future on a few occasions), his detachment and lack of emotion. Anyway, I wouldn't insist on this position. But reiterate that this question is primarily about "Maman" as we could also go into a long debate about the title translation (i.e. is "The Stranger" better then "The Outsider"?). Let's not get sidetracked
SafeTex Oct 25, 2021:
@ Steve and all Yes, keep "today" at the end cos you then have coming up "yesterday" and "tomorrow"
and they too will be at the end of their sentences in all probability
I also like "maman' in the English version I posted so I would have said
"Maman died today"
Steve Robbie Oct 25, 2021:
(My) mother died today The flatness of the rhythm is important, and I agree with Helen that putting "today" at the front of the English sentence shifts the emphasis the wrong way. It's a small thing, but this is an opening paragraph that really does set the tone of the book.

It's important that Meursault should not sound affectionate. As the author of the New Yorker article observes, he lives his life entirely in the moment - but this because he lacks the emotional imagination to see forward or backward, so when his mother dies, his affection dies too. Her death arguably untethers him in a way that sets off the rest of the novel's events, his act of murder and his ultimate embrace of his own death, but he does not grieve.
Emmanuella Oct 24, 2021:
@ Tony - Yvonne

I posted the link at 4.33 pm
Tony M Oct 23, 2021:
@ Yvonne Ah yes, sorry! That VITAL context was not posted by Asker, and I was not able to consult the link given.
Yvonne Gallagher Oct 23, 2021:
@ Tony You are overlooking the fact that hier is in the next sentence
“Aujourd'hui, maman est morte. Ou peut-être hier, je ne sais pas. J'ai reçu un télégramme de l'asile : « Mère décédée. Enterrement demain. Sentiments distingués. » Cela ne veut rien dire. C'était peut-être hier.”
Tony M Oct 23, 2021:
@ Asker et al Everyone seems to be overlooking the fact that 'aujourd'hui' can also simply mean 'now' in FR — cf. « Auparavant, j'allait à la piscine, mais aujourd'hui, je n'y vais plus »
The fact that FR uses 'être mort' for both 'to be dead' and 'to have died' creates an ambiguity not present in EN.
Helen Shiner Oct 23, 2021:
My mother died today. With Bokani. It is meant to be a flat statement. By putting ‘today’ first, it places an emphasis within the sentence that is not really there in the French. This radio programme about the opening of the book might be helpful: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01kr8dx
Bokani Hart Oct 23, 2021:
Quite like "My mother died today..." https://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2007/may/10/open...
Emmanuella Oct 23, 2021:
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/414005-aujourd-hui-maman-es...

L'auteur a reçu un télégramme qui n'indique pas la date exacte de la mort. D'où la virgule qui selon moi est justifiée.

Proposed translations

+7
14 mins
Selected

Today, my mother died

Interesting article.

I read this in the original French for my BA degree years ago and that's the way I understood the first sentence (in my head) and how I'd translate it. I never read it in translation and don't really agree with any of these suggestions.

Mommy, Mom, Mum and Mama, Maman are all too childish IMHO

Yes, "Mother" is a bit cold and denotes a distance between them so I'd add "my" which brings them closer and which I think is just right to denote the relationship.

I'd also keep the structure of foregrounding "Today" which emphasises the fact that this is a portentous day in the writer's life
Peer comment(s):
agree ormiston : Also feel that the register doesn't match mom/mum/mummy
16 mins
Many thanks:-)
agree Philippa Smith : Totally agree with you Yvonne: interesting article but don't agree with the author's conclusion. "my mother" is exactly what I'd use.
18 mins
Many thanks:-)
agree Katarina Peters : 100%
30 mins
Many thanks:-)
agree Tony M : Totally agree with your analysis regarding 'Maman'
2 hrs
Thanks Tony:-) Well I had to analyse the whole book back in 2000. and it really made an impression. Would definitely recommend you read it.
agree Jennifer White : "Mother died today - or maybe it was yesterday, I don't know". Heard this many times and studied it too, many moons ago.........
3 hrs
Many thanks:-)
agree Carol Gullidge
6 hrs
Many thanks:-)
agree Yolanda Broad
2 days 21 hrs
Many thanks:-)
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
-1
2 hrs
French term (edited): Aujourd'hui, maman est morte

It was today that dear mother passed away; in the here and now, mom is no longer with us

I've added, pace Tony M., another interpretation.

My first reading to lessen the impact on the reader of a literal translation and cushion the blow with a rhyme.

Psychics would say: 'passed to the other side'

Otherwise, the literary line that I recall better from school: 'L'enfer, c'est les autres': Jean-Paul Sartre.
Example sentence:

Five months after my mother passed away, the parent of one of my students died

Reference:

http://wehavekids.com/family-relationships/How-to-Go-On-After-the-Loss-of-Your-Mother

Peer comment(s):
disagree Carol Gullidge : There’s absolutely no need to embroider the text or cushion the blow simply because this is a “literary” question
3 hrs
It's not a tabloid newspaper headline, either. This is the 21st Century where literary works - including the Bible and stage plays - are retranslated in the light of modern sensitivities and death-ridden taboos.
neutral Julie Barber : how about "went up in a puff of smoke?" :-))
1 day 19 hrs
We Brits vs. Americans like to be euphemistic and passed away - unlike died today - is not meant as a newspaper headline. Otherwise, this question - about a novel I read for Oxbridge A-levels - seems to have opened up an Irish hornets' nest.
Something went wrong...
+2
15 hrs

Mother died today.

http://www.naturalthinker.net/trl/texts/Camus,Albert/TheStra...

From first US translation and edition.

I don't necessarily agree with it, but there's rarely just one way of translating a sentence in literature.

I don't see the end for endless debate and artificial controversy either.

I read it in secondary school.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 hrs (2021-10-24 06:26:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

see the need

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 4 hrs (2021-10-24 18:55:37 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Mother" is probably more in tune with what would be said in UK English at the time by a man of a certain class, whereas "Maman" sounds plaintive, sad.

Mother, maman, mom, mommy, mum, mummy, mam, mammy, etc., etc., all have connotations.

I wouldn't condemn the character based on either translation, personally.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 4 hrs (2021-10-24 18:59:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Actually, more actually, I wouldn't condemn the character based on any of the three "contenders" I've seen (the one posted by Yvonne, the "Maman" one, or the 1946 one). It seems that is the crux of the debate.
Peer comment(s):
agree Jennifer White : See my comment to Yvonne posted yesterday. Quite a silly debate, I agree.
4 hrs
Thanks Jennifer! There's no "ma" in the French, so why put "my" in the English?
agree Yolanda Broad
2 days 5 hrs
Thank you very much, Yolanda!
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

2 hrs
Reference:

First paragraph of novel

Aujourd’hui, maman est morte. Ou peut-être hier, je ne sais pas. J’ai reçu un télégramme de l’asile : « Mère décédée. Enterrement demain. Sentiments distingués. » Cela ne veut rien dire. C’était peut-être hier.
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree SafeTex
2 days 3 hrs
agree Yolanda Broad
2 days 18 hrs
Something went wrong...
15 hrs
Reference:

First paragraph of English translation by Matthew Ward

The book in pdf format is downloadabe for free in the reference link

Maman died today. Or yesterday maybe, I don't know.
I got a telegram from the home: "Mother deceased.
Funeral tomorrow. Faithfully yours." That doesn't mean
anything. Maybe it was yesterday
Reference:

https://www.slps.org/site/handlers/filedownload.ashx?moduleinstanceid=27607&dataid=78367&FileName=The%20Stranger%20-%20Albert%20Camus.pdf

Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Conor McAuley : Maman works I think, strangely.
28 mins
agree Yolanda Broad
2 days 6 hrs
Something went wrong...
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