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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

36'500

English translation:

36,500 ng/mL

Added to glossary by liz askew
Jun 5, 2008 17:05
16 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term

36'500

French to English Tech/Engineering Medical (general) medical report
This is talking about the level of ferritin in a patient with severe liver problems (probably drug-induced)
'(36'500 ou le norme est
Proposed translations (English)
3 +4 references and comments
4 +4 30,500 μg/L si dans valeurs normales
4 +1 36 thousand ...
Change log

Jun 9, 2008 08:11: liz askew Created KOG entry

Discussion

transdoctor (X) Jun 9, 2008:
careful - nanograms per millilitre - ng/mL
transdoctor (X) Jun 7, 2008:
ng/mL being the conventional unit, not the SI unit which is pmol/L http://jama.ama-assn.org/misc/auinst_si.dtl
transdoctor (X) Jun 7, 2008:
@Lionel, the Swiss use the apostrophe as a thousands separator. Serum ferritin is measured in ng/mL.
Lionel_M (X) Jun 6, 2008:
36'500 does not mean anything ! It is not a standard from SI "International standard" for measure. Is it 36.500 or 36,500 and what is the unit ? kilograms/meter (kg/m) or nanograms per liter (ng/L) ???
transdoctor (X) Jun 6, 2008:
I'm not as stupid as I look ;-)
http://www.maire-info.com/article.asp?param=6800&PARAM2=PLUS
http://www.iledefrance.fr/lactualite/logement/logement/la-re...
transdoctor (X) Jun 6, 2008:
In France, effectivement, the thousands separator is a space, but not in the French of the European Union (with which I have worked extensively). Sorry for the confusion.
transdoctor (X) Jun 6, 2008:
Speaking as one of the few with medical qualifications here, a ferritin level above thirty thousand ng/ml is absolutely not impossible. See Still's Disease http://www.stillsdisease.org/old/article_two.htm
mportal (asker) Jun 6, 2008:
I'm sorry I had not been looking at this discussion more closely. I was wondering why there was an apostrophe, and if the number given could be correct, and the observations made are very helpful in these respects.
The translation of the whole sentence concerned is as follows:
' It must be said that with the presence of a marked hepatic cytolysis, an equally increased level of ferritin (36,500 where the normal level is <300) does not translate as hemachromatosis and, especially as, in the case we are concerned with, ferritin spontaneously returned to a normal level as the acute hepatitis diminished.'
They also mention the 'massive increase in ferritin'. I think it is correct that they are talking about 'ng/l' rather than 'mg/l'. As I understand it from what several people have said, this would still be a 'massive increase' on the normal level, but perhaps not impossible?
transdoctor (X) Jun 5, 2008:
36.500 is French notation (period/point as thousands separator), 36,500 or 36 500 is English notation (comma or space as thousands separator). Many computer programmes and printouts use the apostrophe as a thousands separator.

Proposed translations

+4
41 mins
Selected

references and comments

Sorry, but I cannot get my head round this

36,500 ug/L ??

When the normal values are:

http://74.125.39.104/search?q=cache:jSZYXAt2_7oJ:pagesperso-...


Ferritine

Si valeurs < normale

Anémie hypochrome microcytaire

Carence martiale

Exercice physique intensif

Grossesse

paludisme avec hémolyse

Végétarien


Valeurs normales

Femmes : 20-150µg/l

Homme : 30-300µg/l

Nouveau né :600µg/l

and hyperferritinaemia is:

<500µg/L

HYPERFERRITINEMIE
- [ Translate this page ]
Ferritinémie<500µg/L la plupart du temps. Mutation C282Y présente dans 44% (4 ... 2005) 18,3%(Hearnshaw, Thippanna et al. 2003) sécrétion par les cellules ...
www.internistes.org/spip.php?article70 - 18k - Cached - Similar pages

If this is really the case, i.e. 36,500 ug/L, then why isn't this patient dead??


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Note added at 1 hr (2008-06-05 19:04:27 GMT)
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What did the researchers find?
space

Forty patients had advanced liver disease. Most patients with advanced liver disease had serum ferritin levels greater than 1500 µg/L. Only one patient had a serum ferritin level less than 1000 µg/L. Sixty-five percent of the patients without advanced liver disease had serum ferritin levels less than 1000 µg/L.

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Note added at 2 hrs (2008-06-05 19:05:32 GMT)
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Hepatocellular carcinoma in a patient with Gaucher disease on ...
levels of ferritin or from a factor released from monocytes. ... elevated (11 mg/l) and showed further rise (101, 36500, 83628. mg/l) in following samples. ...

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Note added at 2 hrs (2008-06-05 19:07:59 GMT)
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More context in French is essential here, IMO.

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Note added at 3 hrs (2008-06-05 20:11:05 GMT)
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I have actually found something now:

bstract:
A 48-year-old woman was admitted because of spiking high fever, sore throat, and jaundice. A diagnosis was made of adult-onset Still disease (AOSD) presenting with acute hepatitis and very high serum ferritin levels (32,240 ng/mL), and she was treated with 2 courses of pulse therapy of methylprednisolone (2 g/day for 3 days) followed by 40 mg/day prednisolone. Subsequently, the serum level of ferritin decreased, but serum total bilirubin increased to 17.3 mg/dL. Therefore, cyclosporin was administered orally. Within the next 3 months, results of liver function tests, as well as serum levels of ferritin, soluble interleukin-2 receptor, interferon-[gamma], interleukin-6, and tumor necrosis factor-[alpha] gradually returned to within normal limits, and cyclosporin administration was subsequently reduced gradually. The clinical presentation suggests that AOSD should be considered when liver dysfunction is accompanied with high fever and extreme hyperferritinemia, and that treatment with cyclosporin or other immunosuppressive drugs that selectively suppress cytokine production by helper T cells is a valuable option in the treatment of AOSD with very high serum ferritin levels.

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Note added at 3 hrs (2008-06-05 20:11:59 GMT)
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AND to be absolutely clear, in English this =

36,500

with a Comma
Peer comment(s):
neutral Drmanu49 : this is the French writing Liz ie 36.500 µg/l in English.
37 mins
so the point is a decimal point, meaning 36.50??
agree Bourth (X) : "remarkably elevated serum ferritin (35000ng/ml) and soluble IL-2 ..." sciencelinks.jp/j-east/article/199923/000019992399A0737405.php - The apostrophe thing is SWISS, as a thousands separator.
4 hrs
Thanks for the info!
agree transdoctor (X) : yes, with a comma not a dot
12 hrs
This needs to be 100% clear.
agree GILLES MEUNIER : right
17 hrs
Thank you!
agree Lionel_M (X) : I agree !36.500 or 36,500 WHAT ??? without unit it does mean anything. Your opinion is likely to be correct but without unit it's a guess...
1 day 4 hrs
In ENGLISH it is 36,500 ng/mL - look at my last reference please.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks Liz. As the measurement is in 'ng/l' (not 'mg/l') and it would appear from your research and from what Transdoctor has said that 36,500 ng/l is possible in extreme cases, this must be correct. (I cannot see why there would be two 0s on the end if it meant 36.5, in any case, and Bourth has explained that the apostrophe is used in Switzerland like a comma in English numerals)."
+1
25 mins

36 thousand ...

mportal asks "Does this really mean '36,500'?"
Answer: Yes, it reads as "thirty-six thousand five hundred" and would indeed suggest a very severe liver condition (as suggested also by drmanu49's note).

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Note added at 1 hr (2008-06-05 18:23:40 GMT)
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To know whether this 'medical report' will soon be up-dated with a 'post-mortem', it would be worth checking the units of measurement in the source text.

Some references express ferritin levels in micrograms/litre, others in nanograms/milli-litre, others, ...
Peer comment(s):
neutral liz askew : my point exactly.
1 hr
agree transdoctor (X) : let's be clear - it's thirty six thousand five hundred nanograms/millilitre !!! cf Drmanu49's gobbledegook
1 day 2 hrs
neutral Drmanu49 : and as I pointed out, in English, 36.5 is normal, 36,500 is exceding pathological. In French 36,500 is normal and 36 500 is exceding the pathological range.
1 day 2 hrs
The source text clearly states: "a patient with severe liver problems (probably drug-induced)", so there is no reason to fiddle with the numbers to make it look like the patient is 'healthy'. The patient is severely sick - if not actually dying.
Something went wrong...
+4
5 mins

30,500 μg/L si dans valeurs normales

La ferritine est la forme de stockage réversible du fer dans l'organisme, notamment dans le foie, la rate, la moelle osseuse et la muqueuse gastro-intestinale. Cette réversibilité permet un stockage et un déstockage rapide du fer en fonction des arrivées (alimentation) et des besoins. La ferritine est un complexe hydrosoluble d'oxyde ferrique et d'une glycoprotéine : l'apoferritine. 1μg de ferritine est capable de fixer jusqu'à 8 mg de fer. Le dosage de la ferritine sanguine ou ferritinémie (du grec haima, [-émie, héma-, hémat(o)-, hémo-] : relatif au sang) se fait par méthode radio-immunologique. Les valeurs normales sont d'environ 90 μg/L de sérum chez l'homme (avec des variations de 30 à 250) et 30 μg/L de sérum chez la femme (variations de 5 à 80). La ferritine est diminuée dans les anémies ferriprives, chez les personnes qui ont subi une gastrectomie (ablation partielle ou totale de l'estomac), dans les cirrhoses portales, chez les femmes qui ont des règles importantes, ou en cas d'hémorragies (tube digestif p.ex.). Elle est par contre augmentée de façon parfois considérable dans les hémochromatoses (de 2 000 à 20 000 μg/L), les nécroses hépatiques, les hépatites chroniques ou aiguës.

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Note added at 1 hr (2008-06-05 18:25:51 GMT)
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Of course the answer I gave is French. In English it would be 36.500 μg/L.

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Note added at 19 hrs (2008-06-06 13:03:16 GMT)
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As i tried to point out from the beginning, in English 36.500 μg/L would be in the normal range, 36,500 μg/L would be highly pathological. 36.500 μg/L can be written 36.5 μg/L it remains the same with a decimal point.

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Note added at 1 day3 hrs (2008-06-06 20:17:45 GMT)
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For transdoctor, the decimal point is a coma in French and that is it.

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Note added at 1 day3 hrs (2008-06-06 20:31:04 GMT)
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There is not such thing a period to separate thousands in French. It is usually a space. Transdoctor's statement is wrong. I have copy edited hundreds of articles and I know my job.

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Note added at 1 day3 hrs (2008-06-06 20:33:00 GMT)
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The coma is used to separate thousands in English as everybody knows.

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Note added at 1 day4 hrs (2008-06-06 21:22:09 GMT)
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Once again, I have never copy edited a scientific article with a period used as a separator for thousands in French. I just finished correcting all articles for JNI (Journées Nationales D'Infectiologie) currently in Marseilles and not one of the 250 or so articles in French use this. I don't really give a hoot whether the mistake is made in other domains. There are editing rules which need to be respected. Period!

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Note added at 1 day4 hrs (2008-06-06 21:26:04 GMT)
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Medical qualifications are definitely not editorial qualifications.
We just spent two editorial sessions trying to explain the rules to physicians and searchers and an article will soon be published on the subject. I will be glad to give anybody the link. We call this toilettage d'article.

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Note added at 3 days19 hrs (2008-06-09 12:14:29 GMT) Post-grading
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I gave the range in μg/L. Using a different scale ng/l has a totally different meaning.
Check the equivalence.
Peer comment(s):
agree Jean-Claude Gouin
1 hr
Thank you.
agree Nitin Goyal
1 hr
Thank you Nitin.
agree liz askew : I have found my own reference now.
1 hr
Thank you Liz.
agree :::::::::: (X)
12 hrs
Thank you Daniel.
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