Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

à bon ouvrier, bon outil

English translation:

to a good workman, a good set of tools

Added to glossary by Stéphanie Soudais
Aug 6, 2008 15:54
15 yrs ago
French term
Change log

Aug 6, 2008 16:33: Carlos Soares da Silva changed "Level" from "Non-PRO" to "PRO"

Jan 14, 2011 12:58: Stéphanie Soudais changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/33515">Julie Allison's</a> old entry - "á bon ouvrier, bon outil"" to ""To a good workman, a good set of tools (in this context)""

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

PRO (3): Sébastien Ricciardi, Tony M, Carlos Soares da Silva

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Discussion

Julie Allison (asker) Aug 6, 2008:
Context Hi! Thanks for the help. The text talks about the high standards of a wine cellar and the cellar master, thereafter appears the above expression. Nothing seems to sound right in English with this phrase :(

P.S. I had no idea people still used phrases like "dolly birds" ;()

Thanks everyone.

Proposed translations

5 hrs
Selected

A good workman always has good tools

Hello,

I think that this is the meaning.



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Note added at 5 hrs (2008-08-06 21:24:49 GMT)
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I was reading into it too much and got confused.

Look at it this way

À Bon ouvrier = to the good workman
bon outil = good set of tools

To (every) good workman comes a good set of tools

I hope that helps.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you so much to everyone who helped out here. I was swaying toward the first answer with the most peer agreement and going to use this: "All tools are good in the hands of a skilled workman" but I now think that Matthew's amendment flows more with the general meaning so I feel I will go with this: "To a good workman, a good set of tools". Again, thank you, everyone. And sorry you didn't see the note about context till so much later than the original post. I thought it would be a run of the mill saying that others would know of by heart! "
+5
38 mins
French term (edited): à bon ouvrier, bon outil

a good workman doesn't need to blame his tools / all tools are good in the hands of a good workman

Oddly, this appears to be the exact opposite of the expression used for 'a bad workman always blames his tools'

It might help us if we knew just what context it was being used in?

It seems to me as if the writer may have deliberately modified the usual expression in order to make some specific point.

There is also another expression 'à bon chat, bon rat', which sort of means 'the biter bit' — possibly the parallel with that expression was also intentional, who can tell?
Peer comment(s):

agree Carlos Soares da Silva : I took 1 minute more than you because I tried to find a reference. Nice answer Tony ! ;-)
4 mins
Thanks, Carlos!
agree kashew : [All these dolly-birds translating these days!]
14 mins
Thanks, J! [What IS the world coming to?!]
agree Helen Shiner : Agree with your first suggestion, but I feel the second has a different meaning from the source.
36 mins
Thanks, Helen! Yes, it does, doesn't it? ... that's what I remarked about Matt's answer too, and I really don't feel that reflects the intended meaning here.
agree liz askew
42 mins
Thanks, Liz!
agree Rachel Fell : what was coming to my mind too, but context'd be nice - usually v. mutually helpful;-)
6 hrs
Thanks, Rachel! Yes, indeed! ;-)
Something went wrong...
39 mins

A workman is as good as his tools

This an adaptation of :
A méchant ouvrier, point de bon outil.

In English
A bad workman blames his tools.
or A bad workman quarrels with his tools
"It is of course a fact that some people will blame their failings wherever they can and this saying has some validity, yet anyone who does practical work soon discovers the importance of good, well maintained tools. So a saying such as "a good workman is highly critical of the state of his tools and makes sure he has the best" would be quite appropriate! It could be that this saying was originated by disgruntled employers whose miserly nature meant their work people had to make do with rubbish equipment. A good workman with bad tools will struggle to do a good job; a bad workman will do a bad job even with good tools - and probably damage them in the process!"

Similar sayings could be :

" A workman is as good as his tools"
" A good worker does not quarrel with his tools"
Peer comment(s):

neutral Tony M : I'd love to return your kindness and give you an 'agree' here, but I do have slight reservations; the trouble with modifying the std exp; in this way is that it tend to suggest '...is ONLY as good as...', which I don't think is the intention...?
29 mins
fair enough. Had an hesitation here with : A good worker does not quarrel with his tools. Thanks Tony
Something went wrong...
49 mins

A skilled craftsman can work with bad tools

Hello,

My try...
Peer comment(s):

neutral Tony M : I certainly agree with the translation idea, though I don't somehow agree with the saying, do you? It's certainly not always true!
20 mins
You have a valid point here. The more I think about it, the more I doubt it. I think it means "A good workman always has good tools". I think that's the idea.
Something went wrong...
+1
1 hr

the right tools for the right job

It will obviously depend on the context, but this is something that might work in the case of a marketing text, as in this Bosch link:
http://rb-aa.bosch.com/bosch/infotech/fr-BE/presstext.cfm?CF...

The Dutch version of this site uses: Goed gereedschap is het halve werk
Peer comment(s):

agree Yolanda Broad
1 day 1 hr
Something went wrong...
3 hrs

the right man for the (right) job

It is not an easy one!

You say they describe the cellar and then mention the master; perhaps this could follow.
Something went wrong...
6 hrs

a good workman is good with their tools

This is shows that a good worker is judged by their work and not by their tools
Something went wrong...
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