| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] | Problems with a translator Thread poster: Interpretali (X)
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sandhya 
Local time: 04:14
German to English
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| Discussion seems to be over! | Aug 14, 2007 |
Hi,
I hate to point it out, but the original poster seems to have brought the discussion to a close under a new name... see below.... or rather a few posts above... [Nuria Navarro]...
cheers
Sandhya
Nuria Navarro wrote:
Again, thanks everybody for contributing with your opinions, but just to end up with the discussion, I would like to clarify some points:
1. I know I am not a native English speaker and that is why I NEVER translate into English. If I made a mistake, I am really sorry. My colleague from Brighton checked the "English" part of the translation (although he was on holiday) and I checked the "Spanish cultural part", because the text spoke about Saints, churches and traditions.
2. My English colleague has been a freelancer for 30 years in Spain and he would like to know who pays 0'12€ per word from Spanish into English. He says the highest price he has been paid in a translation has been 0'08€, so lucky the ones who are paid 12 cents.
3. When we posted the job, we got 50 posts in less than 24 hours. If people answer to the posts it is because they agree with the price.
4. We are going to pay the translator the price we agreeded. The problem is mainly that he has disappeared. He does not answer the phone or the emails, so we hope he is fine. The only thing which disturbed us was that until he sent us the invoice everything was OK and fast, but after that, no answer.
Thanks for your comments and have a nice week!
[Edited at 2007-08-14 14:51]
| | | | | This is classic | Aug 14, 2007 |
This kind of situation happens all the time and is perfectly normal. For the reasons mentioned in the above posts, I also think you should pay the translator. You should just consider this as being negative experience that all agencies have to put up with. This is in fact precisely what having an agency is all about - you have to watch out for things and correct them. If life was easy and there weren't any problems such as this one, ever, then I don't see why agencies can charge double the rates... See more This kind of situation happens all the time and is perfectly normal. For the reasons mentioned in the above posts, I also think you should pay the translator. You should just consider this as being negative experience that all agencies have to put up with. This is in fact precisely what having an agency is all about - you have to watch out for things and correct them. If life was easy and there weren't any problems such as this one, ever, then I don't see why agencies can charge double the rates that freelancers do. If life was perfect and such problems never existed, freelancers would have power over the market.
Also, just a little comment: this thread illustrates very clearly why the WWA is a very bad idea - this situation here could have and probably would have resulted in an abusive feedback if negative feedback was allowed. I am really happy that ProZ backed off negative WWA and really hope they will not offer it in the future. ▲ Collapse
| | | | MariusV
Lithuania
Local time: 01:44
English to Lithuanian
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| quality costs money | Aug 14, 2007 |
Dear Samuel,
I'd disagree with you. Well, from one side, agreement on the rate depends on the agreeing parties and there is no such an organization like Translation Rate Regulation agency that defines rates for language combinations.
However, there is such a thing that is called common sense. "Adequate" is just the right word to describe this situation - the agency just got what they were paying for. Quality is hard work, quality means a lot of time and effort - that i... See more Dear Samuel,
I'd disagree with you. Well, from one side, agreement on the rate depends on the agreeing parties and there is no such an organization like Translation Rate Regulation agency that defines rates for language combinations.
However, there is such a thing that is called common sense. "Adequate" is just the right word to describe this situation - the agency just got what they were paying for. Quality is hard work, quality means a lot of time and effort - that is why professional people who provide supreme quality ask for a high rate. And if the agency wanted a 2 day job to be done overnight for cents, can they expect a supreme (or, at least, a decent quality)? This is what I am talking about.
Also, the agency made numerous (and serious) project management mistakes and they are now complaining "problems with a translator". Well, I do not say there cannot be problems with quality, but look how all the process looked alike. I think it should be changed "Problems with the agency". ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 00:44
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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| I agree with some of what you say | Aug 14, 2007 |
MariusV wrote:
"Adequate" is just the right word to describe this situation - the agency just got what they were paying for.
There is truth in what you say. The proverb goes "if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys", and I certainly agree that it is often so. From a client's perspective, a low payment invites lower quality service providers.
However, it is unacceptable in my opinion, from a translator's perspective, to deliberately deliver substandard work simply because the payment is substandard. A translator should never deliver substandard work.
If a translator accepts a job for which the offered payment is substandard, then he is either ignorant or he has some good reason (perhaps he finds the subject interesting). Either way, he should still deliver his usual standard of work.
I have never met a translator (except you, perhaps) who gives clients a choice between quality work and substandard work, depending on how much they're willing to pay.(1) I don't think this is the norm (but please correct me if I'm wrong), and if such translators do exist, then in my opinion they should warn their clients of the fact.
Quality is hard work, quality means a lot of time and effort - that is why professional people who provide supreme quality ask for a high rate.
I agree completely.
And if the agency wanted a 2 day job to be done overnight for cents, can they expect supreme ... quality?
They can certainly expect it if it had been promised, don't you agree?
--
(1) One possible exception is gisting.
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| Agree with some of what Samuel says | Aug 14, 2007 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
However, it is unacceptable in my opinion, from a translator's perspective, to deliberately deliver substandard work simply because the payment is substandard. A translator should never deliver substandard work.
It is unacceptable indeed. That is why a translator who thinks the pay is lower than what they deserve for the quality of their work should simply refuse such jobs or at least, if they think it is worth it, negotiate for a higher rate. Sadly, most of them don't see it this way - and we now get lots of monkey translations paid with peanuts to proofread, as well as lots of translators who deserve a better pay but never end up getting more than peanuts. And the rest follows...
[Edited at 2007-08-14 22:37]
| | | | | what is even worse...(or sadder) | Aug 15, 2007 |
is that there are times when the person who did the translation (I did not say "translator" on purpose ) thinks they did a perfectly adequate or fine job.
In that case, he/she is not "deliberately delivering substandard work", he/she has no clue this may be the case.
Query: how often are some of you approached to proof/edit a translation that merits a re-write or a re-translation?
Patricia
| | | | MariusV
Lithuania
Local time: 01:44
English to Lithuanian
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| depends on preferences | Aug 15, 2007 |
Dear Samuel,
Like in any other business, there is the same thing in translation business. Some people put quality and reliability first (agencies, translators, or whomever) and they can provide quality, some people just compete on the rates (they think they can attract clients by offering lowest rates). So, all depends (for the clients and for the service providers) upon the preferences they put to their business. Well, this would be a very rough comparison, but it is related to the... See more Dear Samuel,
Like in any other business, there is the same thing in translation business. Some people put quality and reliability first (agencies, translators, or whomever) and they can provide quality, some people just compete on the rates (they think they can attract clients by offering lowest rates). So, all depends (for the clients and for the service providers) upon the preferences they put to their business. Well, this would be a very rough comparison, but it is related to the so-called "market segmentation". Even us, being translators, should decide for ourselves for which market segment we want to work - my preference is to work for people who need quality and who realise and understand that they should pay some extra for that. And believe me - serious agencies have quite a big profit margin and it is better for them to pay a decent rate and have a decent job instead of paying nuts and sitting the whole day correcting some scrap. When you sum up the time you spend on "cheap translation" (let alone the stress and costs for your health, not even speaking about the possibility to lose the client), a more expensive option becomes "cheaper". Again the segmentation on the same principle - clients who understand that (or had bad experience) and the clients who do not understand that. Like in the proverb that a greedy person pays twice... ▲ Collapse
| | | | MariusV
Lithuania
Local time: 01:44
English to Lithuanian
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| but what about the motivation? | Aug 15, 2007 |
Viktoria Gimbe wrote: Samuel Murray wrote:
However, it is unacceptable in my opinion, from a translator's perspective, to deliberately deliver substandard work simply because the payment is substandard. A translator should never deliver substandard work.
It is unacceptable indeed. That is why a translator who thinks the pay is lower than what they deserve for the quality of their work should simply refuse such jobs or at least, if they think it is worth it, negotiate for a higher rate. Sadly, most of them don't see it this way - and we now get lots of monkey translations paid with peanuts to proofread, as well as lots of translators who deserve a better pay but never end up getting more than peanuts. And the rest follows... [Edited at 2007-08-14 22:37]
OK, if the translator accepted the rate, he/she shall provide a decent service. And yes, I do agree, that it is no excuse to make a trampslation instead of a decent translation. However, have you ever experience the feeling working for the rates that are really small (too small for the work it is actually worth)? I had many situations like that earlier - and I felt a lack of motivation to do my best (I was working mumbling and grumbling half aloud "OK, I will do it, but will never ever again take it for such rates"). Money is one of the instruments for motivation. Just think simply - you have 1) a client who pays monkey nuts, wants a 3 day job done per day, demands supreme quality for those monkey nuts and many irrelevant things and 2) a client who pays a very good rate and has a very clear and exact system of requirements where all is clear like "2+2"? For which of the clients you will have MORE motivation? Is it reasonable to expect a high motivation when the person feels that his/her work unvalued?
[Edited at 2007-08-15 10:28]
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Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 00:44
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
MariusV wrote:
However, have you ever experience the feeling working for the rates that are really small...? I had many situations like that earlier - and I felt a lack of motivation to do my best (I was working mumbling and grumbling half aloud "OK, I will do it, but will never ever again take it for such rates").
Yes. I recently had a client bully me into a low rate, and in a weak moment I accepted because the subject field sounded moderately interesting. Bad mistake... and I can tell you that I was tempted more than once during the hours and hours of labour to rush things, take shortcuts, skimp on quality control, guess instead of use a dictionary, etc. So, yes, I know what you mean.
| | | | Amy Duncan (X)
Brazil
Local time: 19:44
Portuguese to English
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| A huge percentage... | Aug 15, 2007 |
Patricia Lane wrote:
Query: how often are some of you approached to proof/edit a translation that merits a re-write or a re-translation?
Patricia
I'd say close to 100% of the proof/edit jobs I get need to be completely or almost completely redone. They are invariably translations done by native speakers of the source, but not the target language.
Amy
| | | | | There are translators who differentiate | Aug 16, 2007 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
I have never met a translator (except you, perhaps) who gives clients a choice between quality work and substandard work, depending on how much they're willing to pay.(1) I don't think this is the norm (but please correct me if I'm wrong), and if such translators do exist, then in my opinion they should warn their clients of the fact.
I have certainly read in the forums before that there are translators who will provide either a "working copy" or a "polished copy", depending on the price negotiated. However, I take it that this does not cover inaccuracies.
Astrid
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