| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | Problems with a translator 投稿者: Interpretali (X)
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Samuel Murray 
オランダ
Local time: 15:14
2006に入会
英語 から アフリカーンス語
+ ...
| No-one is backstabbing here | Aug 13, 2007 |
Nicole Schnell wrote:
The quality of the translation was evaluated by non-native speakers. Backstabbing makes me sick.
No-one is backstabbing anyone here. And I fail to see what backstabbing has to do with non-native speakers evaluating a translation.
| | | | Samuel Murray
オランダ
Local time: 15:14
2006に入会
英語 から アフリカーンス語
+ ...
| Please read the thread | Aug 13, 2007 |
Chiarraighe wrote:
Shouldn't the translator be able to defend himself? We are criticising him without knowing what the supposed spelling errors and omissions were. We are judging both the translator and the agency without knowing the whole story.
Quite right. We are judging the translator based on the comments by the agency. If we were to always shut up unless the "whole story" is known, we wouldn't be able to discuss anything in this forum.
If the translation has such errors, I cannot fathom why the agency has said that the translation was "quite good". It makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.
The OP never said that the translation is quite good despite of these errors. On the contrary -- the "quite good" comment came after Nicole asked what the translation was like if these errors are specifically not taken into account.
[Edited at 2007-08-13 17:01]
| | | | | What backstabbing? | Aug 13, 2007 |
Nicole Schnell wrote:
Backstabbing makes me sick.
Could you clarify that Nicole?
Thanks
| | | | | To end up with the discussion | Aug 13, 2007 |
Again, thanks everybody for contributing with your opinions, but just to end up with the discussion, I would like to clarify some points:
1. I know I am not a native English speaker and that is why I NEVER translate into English. If I made a mistake, I am really sorry. My colleague from Brighton checked the "English" part of the translation (although he was on holiday) and I checked the "Spanish cultural part", because the text spoke about Saints, churches and traditions.
... See more Again, thanks everybody for contributing with your opinions, but just to end up with the discussion, I would like to clarify some points:
1. I know I am not a native English speaker and that is why I NEVER translate into English. If I made a mistake, I am really sorry. My colleague from Brighton checked the "English" part of the translation (although he was on holiday) and I checked the "Spanish cultural part", because the text spoke about Saints, churches and traditions.
2. My English colleague has been a freelancer for 30 years in Spain and he would like to know who pays 0'12€ per word from Spanish into English. He says the highest price he has been paid in a translation has been 0'08€, so lucky the ones who are paid 12 cents.
3. When we posted the job, we got 50 posts in less than 24 hours. If people answer to the posts it is because they agree with the price.
4. We are going to pay the translator the price we agreeded. The problem is mainly that he has disappeared. He does not answer the phone or the emails, so we hope he is fine. The only thing which disturbed us was that until he sent us the invoice everything was OK and fast, but after that, no answer.
Thanks for your comments and have a nice week! ▲ Collapse
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Sonja Tomaskovic (X)
ドイツ
Local time: 15:14
英語 から ドイツ語
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| I think this is getting out of hand. | Aug 13, 2007 |
Maybe everyone can cool down a bit.
Just to repeat the facts:
The original poster says the translation was delivered full of mistakes, and that it took them considerable time to correct it.
There are a number of comments here, both pro and con the agency and pro and con the translator, that actually make sense.
For instance, there is no proof these spelling mistakes are real. The US/UK English question is still pending, as is the question why i... See more Maybe everyone can cool down a bit.
Just to repeat the facts:
The original poster says the translation was delivered full of mistakes, and that it took them considerable time to correct it.
There are a number of comments here, both pro and con the agency and pro and con the translator, that actually make sense.
For instance, there is no proof these spelling mistakes are real. The US/UK English question is still pending, as is the question why it took them so long to proof 3,000 words in 5 hours. If the translation has been that bad, I would have skipped the proofreading part after 500 words and done it all over again. It would have cost me less time. So why bother to proofread at all?
And then I would like to mention that the original poster shows a significant amount of spelling mistakes in his/her own posting.
And then the translator. Delivered before time and has not been available since the delivery. What do we do with this? I agree that if he/she made a lot of spelling mistakes, the quality of the translation can actually be regarded as bad (but please see last paragraph).
I don't think that not being available during the weekend, or even failing to respond immediately, can be called unprofessional or seen as an excuse not to pay at all. After all, we're freelancers and have the choice to be available one day and "gone" the next day. (Not that I would highly recommend it, but it is not a crime to do so.)
I don't know if there have been any developments in the meantime. Maybe the translator has contacted the original poster, maybe not. Even if s/he has not, we still can't tell for sure that s/he is hiding or not willing to cooperate with the outsourcerer.
What we have here are a number of open questions. And we don't know both sides of the story yet.
I would suggest that we wait until we have more information, if these details ever get posted here. No need to feel offended. I don't see any backstabbing here, just a number of very different opinions.
Let's see how things evolve.
Sonja ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Good suggestion | Aug 13, 2007 |
[quote]Sonja Tomaskovic wrote:
For instance, there is no proof these spelling mistakes are real. The US/UK English question is still pending, as is the question why it took them so long to proof 3,000 words in 5 hours.
Sonja,
I quite agree. I would like to have more info from the poster, if possible, and hope that s/he answers the questions that I and others have posted.
| | | | Samuel Murray
オランダ
Local time: 15:14
2006に入会
英語 から アフリカーンス語
+ ...
| Interesting point | Aug 13, 2007 |
Sonja Tomaskovic wrote:
Delivered before time and has not been available since the delivery. What do we do with this?
You touch on an interesting point. Do you think there is the expectation from clients that if the stated deadline is X, that the translator should be available until X, even if the work is delivered earlier?
For example, if a client says the deadline is Monday at 17:00, it may be that he is expecting me to be available during Monday, in case something happens that affects the job. If on the other hand, the deadline is Monday at 9:00, can I reasonably assume that the client did not expect me to be available for queries over the weekend?
Even though translators aren't paid for their time, I suspect that clients often expect them to be available for that time.
[Edited at 2007-08-13 17:20]
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Samuel Murray wrote:
You touch on an interesting point. Do you think there is the expectation from clients that if the stated deadline is X, that the translator should be available until X, even if the work is delivered earlier?
This is one more variable in a now fairly long list of either unknowns or approximations.
"Normally", a deadline means a job is to be handed in no later than X and clients are usually happy when it is delivered earlier.
Though, personally, I am extremely easy to reach and 200 percent reactive, if I client expects me to make real time available between the moment I hand in the job and the stated deadline, then I appreciate it being made clear in the PO.
I am a bit stunned that people either don't seem to understand Nicole's "I don't like backstabbing" remark. I don't either and I fully understand where Nicole was coming from.
In Western law, one is presumed innocent until proved otherwise. Moreover, there is the right of rebuttal. Here, the case is being presented by only one party (the agency), we neither have the contract/PO nor the original and final documents, and judge and jury are a hodge-podge of fellow translators.
Question: if it turned out there was a problem on one of your jobs (real or perceived), would you want the matter to be treated in this manner?
There are too many unknowns here and too many speculations to be able to voice an informed, fair, and balanced opinion.
Generally, this situation strikes me as a classic case of poor and insufficient communication between the two parties to this contract.
Patricia
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Samuel Murray
オランダ
Local time: 15:14
2006に入会
英語 から アフリカーンス語
+ ...
| Forums not intended for arbitration | Aug 13, 2007 |
Patricia Lane wrote:
In Western law, one is presumed innocent until proved otherwise. Moreover, there is the right of rebuttal. Here, the case is being presented by only one party (the agency), we neither have the contract/PO nor the original and final documents, and judge and jury are a hodge-podge of fellow translators.
There is no judge and jury here. Besides, the identity of the translator is not known (and forum rules prohibit making it known), so I fail to see how the translator is in any way disadvantaged. No-one is being slighted here. You should treat the entire situation as hypothetical.
What I find amazing is how the original poster was attacked and her professionalism questioned when she asked for help about a situation that has arisen.
Question: if it turned out there was a problem on one of your jobs (real or perceived), would you want the matter to be treated in this manner?
I would have had no objection if I were this translator, as long as the original poster didn't post maliciously slanderous things about me and as long as my identity remains a secret.
| | | | Irene N
米国
Local time: 08:14
英語 から ロシア語
+ ...
All I want to add is that even though I can get lost for much more than a few hours (like in a few minutes after a long EVA night I'm simply going to crash with all comm means off till my next shift at 5 am) but never before getting a confirmation that, as a minimum, the job has been received and opened, and is manageable. In case of short and/or urgent jobs I remain available until told that the editor is happy and the job has been sent to the client. This normally happens within 1-2 hours and ... See more All I want to add is that even though I can get lost for much more than a few hours (like in a few minutes after a long EVA night I'm simply going to crash with all comm means off till my next shift at 5 am) but never before getting a confirmation that, as a minimum, the job has been received and opened, and is manageable. In case of short and/or urgent jobs I remain available until told that the editor is happy and the job has been sent to the client. This normally happens within 1-2 hours and I do believe that we must do so. I can't imagine how one can just send the job and disappear without some basic initial feedback or possible further instructions.
In this regard my vote goes to the poster - logically and ethically, the translator that got lost was wrong. ▲ Collapse
| | | | MariusV
リトアニア
Local time: 16:14
英語 から リトアニア語
+ ...
| was it just spelling? | Aug 13, 2007 |
I did not read the thread in a great detail but I have one thing that does not make the logics meet here...Does the translation quality (or proor translation quality) involves only spelling mistakes? I think spelling mistakes are not the thing Nr 1 for quality (as long as people have spellcheckers). How about technical comprehension of the area, understanding and relaying the source correctly, let alone grammar, terminology, word formation, target style and so on? I do not say that leaving spell... See more I did not read the thread in a great detail but I have one thing that does not make the logics meet here...Does the translation quality (or proor translation quality) involves only spelling mistakes? I think spelling mistakes are not the thing Nr 1 for quality (as long as people have spellcheckers). How about technical comprehension of the area, understanding and relaying the source correctly, let alone grammar, terminology, word formation, target style and so on? I do not say that leaving spelling mistakes is good - but spelling mistakes is one of the MANY things related to poor translation quality and here it seems to be the most important and the only.
And I do not agree with Samuel about the rates and quality. There is such a thing as "market rate" and if people want things to be done 2 or 3 times below the usual market rate, aren't they kids not to understand that they risk the quality (I do say "risk", do not say it is for sure they will get poor quality). Would be same like to book a room in the cheapest 2 star hotel and then complain that the hotel did not serve the best brands of French wine and that the room had no luxury at all and the chairs in the hotel were so inconvenient and I did not like the hotel at all because of that ?
And even if the client is not happy about the quality, why he/she could not inform the translator in due time about that and demand the translator to improve the quality and to eliminate the things of concern? Last question - WHY did you hire a person whose quality you did not know and had no time reserve left for the solutions of the possible problems? Were the deadlines so tight ? Then why did you take such a job done by a translator you do not know at all and then start complaining? I think it is a pure mistake of translation project management. Even if the translator made the worst translation in the world. And these 5 hours you have spent is the price for this mistake. Good that only that - what if you delivered a poor quality to the client, the client printed it in 500 000 copies with mistakes and then wants a compensation? It is THE AGENCY who is responsible for the text they deliver to the client and issues between the agency and the translator cannot be mixed up into this bunch.
[Edited at 2007-08-13 23:10] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
オランダ
Local time: 15:14
2006に入会
英語 から アフリカーンス語
+ ...
| On market rates and adequacy | Aug 14, 2007 |
MariusV wrote:
There is such a thing as "market rate"...
There is no such thing as market rate, in the way that you suggest. The "market rate" is not defined anywhere. Can you show me a URL that defines market rate? The market rate is simply the rate that the market is willing to accept.
This translator had accepted the rate offered by the agency. Furthermore, the agency's offered rate prompted many translators to apply for the job, and the translator they finally chose wasn't a beginner or a struggling translator.
In the light of the above three points, there can be no doubt that the rate offered by the agency was the market rate. I'll be happy to hear arguments to the contrary.
Its a pity I can't check for myself what the average rates for ES-EN are in http://www.proz.com/?sp=rates_view.
Would be same like to book a room in the cheapest 2 star hotel and then complain that the hotel did not serve the best brands of French wine...
I'm not fond of analogies, but I'll answer this one. If I booked a room in the cheapest 2 star hotel, and some of the windows are broken, or the bathroom was filthy, I would certainly complain, regardless of how little I had paid. There is such a thing as a minimum standard.
I agree that translations come in various qualities, and that higher pay often results in higher quality (or rather, lower pay often results in lower quality), but there are also levels of quality called "adequate" and "inadequate".
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| Spell checkers? Word checkers! | Aug 14, 2007 |
We don't yet know the answer to the US/GB English question. Also, remember (I hope you already knew) that spell checkers, despite their name, don't (for the most part) check spelling - they check that the text consists of words and in most cases they don't know whether a word that they find in the text is the right word. (I have experience of the MS Word spell checker and I assume others are broadly similar in these respects.)
Oliver
| | | | | A good contract / PO is the key | Aug 14, 2007 |
Hello everyone,
I am not going to take sides or add up to what has already been said.
All I´d like to say here is that the answer to most of our (agencies and translators) problems is a clear PO or a contract that states what is expected from either party and what the reaction will be from either side if those terms and conditions are not respected.
I don´t think there is any excuse not to make this document a constant part of the negotiations.
| | | | Mark Cole
Local time: 14:14
ポーランド語 から 英語
+ ...
| 2 more cents' worth (makes 6 cents so far...: ) | Aug 14, 2007 |
By the sound of it, the fact that the job was submitted early and you can't contact the translator was that he/she was either planning to go on holiday and get away from it all, or had a sudden emergency, and therefore the job may have been done in a rush.
I therefore don't feel qualified to comment until we know more facts.
However, the reason agencies take mark-ups is to cover precisely this type of eventuality. On the other hand, it is good practice as a translator t... See more By the sound of it, the fact that the job was submitted early and you can't contact the translator was that he/she was either planning to go on holiday and get away from it all, or had a sudden emergency, and therefore the job may have been done in a rush.
I therefore don't feel qualified to comment until we know more facts.
However, the reason agencies take mark-ups is to cover precisely this type of eventuality. On the other hand, it is good practice as a translator to let your client know if you will be unavailable after delivering a job, as you never know whether the file has been corrupted/the server is down/the end-client has any queries. As Patricia says, it's lack of communication that seems to be the main problem here. The agency and the translator need to come to some agreement on this.
Some time ago I did a rush, late-night job which I delivered with a number of mistakes. The agency got back to me about them. I apologised and offered to reduce my charge. They said there was no need, and even thanked me for my professional attitude! So the best policy is for the parties to get together and discuss matters amicably. ▲ Collapse
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