| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Typed out psychiatrist notes to be translated - fix grammar? Add periods? Or leave as is? Thread poster: Adieu
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Adieu 
Ukrainian to English
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I have some psychiatrist notes to translate. They're a mess of run-on sentences and shorthand connected by commas.
Actually, I'm not even sure if this was intended. It could also be a bad transcript of a voice recording.
How much grammatical damage control is the norm here? Another concern is that the client is running it on a general-purpose shared translation memory, so staying faithful to the original style will teach the CAT some bad baaaad manners.
Ple... See more I have some psychiatrist notes to translate. They're a mess of run-on sentences and shorthand connected by commas.
Actually, I'm not even sure if this was intended. It could also be a bad transcript of a voice recording.
How much grammatical damage control is the norm here? Another concern is that the client is running it on a general-purpose shared translation memory, so staying faithful to the original style will teach the CAT some bad baaaad manners.
Please advise. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Ask the client | Jun 18, 2021 |
Adieu wrote:
Actually, I'm not even sure if this was intended. It could also be a bad transcript of a voice recording.
That's what I'd do...
| | | | Adieu
Ukrainian to English
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TOPIC STARTER
PM replied that he'd like complete sentences.
Still, I'm not sure how aggressively I should restructure and break up long-winded run-ons.
It literally has sentences that start with the patient's concussion at age 1.3 (sic) and continue straight through to how his asthma attacks stopped after age 13. With unrelated surgeries inbetween.
Also, it never once calls the patient a patient, a name, or any other noun. Just verbs.
Sort of like:
... See more PM replied that he'd like complete sentences.
Still, I'm not sure how aggressively I should restructure and break up long-winded run-ons.
It literally has sentences that start with the patient's concussion at age 1.3 (sic) and continue straight through to how his asthma attacks stopped after age 13. With unrelated surgeries inbetween.
Also, it never once calls the patient a patient, a name, or any other noun. Just verbs.
Sort of like:
Went to school, socialized normally, had concussion, didn't drink, got Bs, now delusional, hears voices, no drug abuse.
But there are pages and pages of this stuff. ▲ Collapse
| | | | AnnaSCHTR
United States
Local time: 16:31
English to Czech
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| I struggled with the same | Jun 18, 2021 |
In addition to all that, my project also included parts where the notes suddenly switched to the first person singular, probably due to capturing parts of the interviews with the patient and his caretaker verbatim.
I created complete sentences and added quotation marks where appropriate. However, some sections were still a bit confusing. So I added a disclaimer and a brief note with my delivery, and offered to clarify anything that was unclear to the end client. As they were just t... See more In addition to all that, my project also included parts where the notes suddenly switched to the first person singular, probably due to capturing parts of the interviews with the patient and his caretaker verbatim.
I created complete sentences and added quotation marks where appropriate. However, some sections were still a bit confusing. So I added a disclaimer and a brief note with my delivery, and offered to clarify anything that was unclear to the end client. As they were just trying to get an overall picture of the patient's medical history there were no additional queries. ▲ Collapse
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Joseph Tein
United States
Local time: 14:31
Member (2009)
Spanish to English
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| Check with the client FIRST | Jun 18, 2021 |
I don't think it's our job to fix grammar or bad sentence structure; I would translate what's there, just as it is. First, however, you could bring it to the client's attention and ask them how they want you to proceed.
| | | | Tina Vonhof (X)
Canada
Local time: 15:31
Dutch to English
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| Not the PM but the end client | Jun 19, 2021 |
Adieu wrote:
PM replied that he'd like complete sentences.
I think you should insist that the PM asks the end client. And you should also discuss with the PM that this is not a simple translation. You should be paid editing rates.
| | | | Robert Forstag
United States
Local time: 17:31
Spanish to English
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| This strikes me as an ethical landmine! | Jun 20, 2021 |
I for one believe you should not even be thinking about altering a physician’s notes in any way whatsoever.
This is one instance in which you need to provide a translation as close as possible to the original.
An exception might be if the translator is a licensed physician themselves. Even then, footnotes would be needed spelling out the assumptions and inferences that have led to the translator’s specific choices.
| | | | Adieu
Ukrainian to English
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TOPIC STARTER | No ethics involved here | Jun 20, 2021 |
If it were for medical decisions on the treatment of a human being, I'd just tell them I wanted no part of bad scans of badly transcribed badly written notes and probably wasn't qualified anyway
And also just maybe tell em to get a better psychiatrist.
This, however, is just some background somebody is forwarding to a foreign sponsor to demonstrate what kind of patients they've managed to recruit. Progress report, not for medical decisions.
At least I hope.... See more If it were for medical decisions on the treatment of a human being, I'd just tell them I wanted no part of bad scans of badly transcribed badly written notes and probably wasn't qualified anyway
And also just maybe tell em to get a better psychiatrist.
This, however, is just some background somebody is forwarding to a foreign sponsor to demonstrate what kind of patients they've managed to recruit. Progress report, not for medical decisions.
At least I hope... else they've got bigger and more systemic ethics problems than just hiring me
Robert Forstag wrote:
I for one believe you should not even be thinking about altering a physician’s notes in any way whatsoever.
This is one instance in which you need to provide a translation as close as possible to the original.
An exception might be if the translator is a licensed physician themselves. Even then, footnotes would be needed spelling out the assumptions and inferences that have led to the translator’s specific choices.
[Edited at 2021-06-20 16:17 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:31
Serbian to English
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| There is some ethics involved, but not medical | Jun 21, 2021 |
Adieu wrote: If it were for medical decisions on the treatment of a human being, I'd just tell them I wanted no part of bad scans of badly transcribed badly written notes and probably wasn't qualified anyway And also just maybe tell em to get a better psychiatrist. This, however, is just some background somebody is forwarding to a foreign sponsor to demonstrate what kind of patients they've managed to recruit. Progress report, not for medical decisions. At least I hope... else they've got bigger and more systemic ethics problems than just hiring me Robert Forstag wrote:
I for one believe you should not even be thinking about altering a physician’s notes in any way whatsoever.
This is one instance in which you need to provide a translation as close as possible to the original.
An exception might be if the translator is a licensed physician themselves. Even then, footnotes would be needed spelling out the assumptions and inferences that have led to the translator’s specific choices.
[Edited at 2021-06-20 16:17 GMT]
"This, however, is just some background somebody is forwarding to a foreign sponsor to demonstrate what kind of patients they've managed to recruit. Progress report, not for medical decisions."
So... you are are basically proposing to take a ST by someone who couldn't be bothered to cobble a single full sentence and in your translation make them look like potential winner of some literary prize?
Why would you do that? Especially for a text that is there only as some kind of "sample" of someone's work?
You just might get some thanks from this psychiatrist, but if the recruiting institution happens to put big value on properly presented patient notes, THEIR feedback is not going to be nice to you. Even less nice if they happen to be a litigious bunch, and start claiming that you colluded in misrepresenting this psychiatrist's writing skills.
OTOH, if they couldn't care less about writing skills, even less reasons for you to "improve" the ST.
Few times in the past, I turned a dog's dinner of ST into something perfectly presentable, but it was in completely different circumstances, where who wrote and who translated was secondary and the priority was a usable translation. For your text I would stick to the "Standard Operating Procedure" - just translate it as it is.
| | | | Adieu
Ukrainian to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Translating bad grammar is an art form | Jun 21, 2021 |
That said, this isn't Huckleberry Finn and substance reigns supreme over style.
Overly literal translations of shorthand and incomplete sentences just don't work between languages that were never structurally similar to begin with.
| | | | | Purpose, target and loss of control. Ethics, his, theirs and yours. | Jun 21, 2021 |
Notes are as notes are. The medical profession seems to have a reputation worldwide for the quality of its handwriting. What are these "notes" anyway? If they are the scribbly (even though they are typed) notes for personal use, they were probably never intended to be shared. If that's the case, how come they are being shared now, however restrictive that sharing is? Where are the notes likely to end up? Maybe they are notes that were to be the basis for a further, more formal piece of writing. ... See more Notes are as notes are. The medical profession seems to have a reputation worldwide for the quality of its handwriting. What are these "notes" anyway? If they are the scribbly (even though they are typed) notes for personal use, they were probably never intended to be shared. If that's the case, how come they are being shared now, however restrictive that sharing is? Where are the notes likely to end up? Maybe they are notes that were to be the basis for a further, more formal piece of writing. There is the potential for conduct, ethical and legal poop hitting the proverbial fan here. I'd play this very carefully. I would use note form, I would not "correct" any grammar mistakes and I'd probably not "improve" the punctuation. The last element can be tricky as punctuation is not used identically from one language to another. If you end up turning the note form document into prose, albeit into short-form text, you will be altering the nature of the source and the risk of erroneous interpretations is present.
Whatever you decide, discuss it with the client and keep a written trace of it.
[Edited at 2021-06-21 19:15 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mihai Badea (X)
Luxembourg
It should be noted that, as long as the client/patient agreed to his/her having his/her statement(s) typed out (and translated), and confidentiality is 100% guaranteed, the typist (and the translator) are legally covered.
It is always prudent for the typist (and the translator) to make sure the consent actually exists.
Otherwise, for guidelines, one might contact either a psychiatrist or/and translator association to request a copy in case such guidelines hopefully actu... See more It should be noted that, as long as the client/patient agreed to his/her having his/her statement(s) typed out (and translated), and confidentiality is 100% guaranteed, the typist (and the translator) are legally covered.
It is always prudent for the typist (and the translator) to make sure the consent actually exists.
Otherwise, for guidelines, one might contact either a psychiatrist or/and translator association to request a copy in case such guidelines hopefully actually exist. ▲ Collapse
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Tony Keily
Local time: 23:31
Italian to English
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| Generally... | Jun 22, 2021 |
...my agencies always want these sorts of notes tidied up a little. You can also use standard notation ([Sic.], [...], etc.) to clarify things.
I agree with the poster who says it's not our duty to turn crap into gold (we're not alchemists), but generally notes are easy to translate so a sort of compensation mechanism comes into play.
Another similar case is transcripts of social media or phone messages in court proceedings. I wouldn't include obvious typos and errors.
| | | | Kaspars Melkis
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:31
English to Latvian
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| cannot say specifically about psychiatry ... | Jun 23, 2021 |
Physician's notes are generally shared with other medical professionals, including other physicians, nurses, pharmacists etc. Despite their scribbly nature usually they are clear and precise in what they mean. Moreover, these notes are considered personal information that patients themselves have rights to access with very few justified exceptions. As these records are becoming more and more digitalized, it is expected that patients will be able to access them automatically online. In the US the... See more Physician's notes are generally shared with other medical professionals, including other physicians, nurses, pharmacists etc. Despite their scribbly nature usually they are clear and precise in what they mean. Moreover, these notes are considered personal information that patients themselves have rights to access with very few justified exceptions. As these records are becoming more and more digitalized, it is expected that patients will be able to access them automatically online. In the US the OpenNotes system has already been developed and coming in force. Other countries will require more time but it is inevitable.
The most common reason to translate physician's notes is a patient receiving treatment abroad, followed by regulatory reviews (clinical trials, pharmacovigilance etc.). In the first case it is important to keep private information intact, in the second it needs to be redacted.
The difficulty in translation is that each organization or hospital tends to develop their own style and abbreviations. The best approach is to expand all uncommon or country specific abbreviations as they will not by readily understood by target audience. For this reason I would assume that certain expansion of sentences to improve grammar is also appropriate. In my opinion we should not follow legalistic approach but make it appropriately readable text for intended purposes.
Some common examples:
Patient instructed NPO (or NPM) – those abbreviations are very common in the UK but in Latvian they are unknown. You would translate them as: patient was instructed to avoid food or drink.
Treatment duration 3/12 – Medicine was prescribed for 3 months
QD means once daily in some countries and four times a day in others. Simply translate in full – once daily, four times a day.
In Latvian it is common to write 1xd., 3xd. Again translate in full (once daily, three times a day) to make it clear for all readers. No one is going to complain that you didn't translate abbreviations as abbreviations. In fact, most electronic prescriptions have usually written it in full, mostly due to shorthand typing – doctors type OD and it gets expanded as once daily automatically.
Sorry for the long post. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Adieu
Ukrainian to English
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TOPIC STARTER
Background info for clinical trials, probably some regulator oversight or record-keeping requirement.
Decisions are still made on the ground by the locals who wrote them. No telemedicine or broken telephone style misinformed lost in translation treatment decisions in the equation.
[Edited at 2021-07-23 17:55 GMT]
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