| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10] > | Should the KudoZ points system be abolished? Thread poster: XXXphxxx (X)
|
|---|
| Where is the like button? | Feb 8, 2013 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
A LOT OF GREAT STUFF!
I completely agree with you, Samuel.
| | | | | Try to improve the system | Feb 8, 2013 |
I think that simply abolishing the points system does not really help move things forward. I work in a very busy pair (French to English), but despite that I've found that people with a vast amount of points are often those who suggest the most helpful answers. Of course, everyone wants to get on the ladder and so it's tempting to have a bash even when you are unfamiliar with the subject area.
Why not organize a new KudoZ competition, in which old answers are reviewed and peer asse... See more I think that simply abolishing the points system does not really help move things forward. I work in a very busy pair (French to English), but despite that I've found that people with a vast amount of points are often those who suggest the most helpful answers. Of course, everyone wants to get on the ladder and so it's tempting to have a bash even when you are unfamiliar with the subject area.
Why not organize a new KudoZ competition, in which old answers are reviewed and peer assessed? There could be a prize for whoever spouts the least nonsense, or, to put it differently, whoever is deemed to have provided the most professional set of answers.
Note that the KudoZ system does not award the most ACCURATE answer, only the most HELPFUL answer. Also, no one is FORCED to give points; questions can be closed without grading. I have often been put on the right track by reading a KudoZ discussion and then doing my own research to find an answer that I think is better.
For this reason, I have never understood why points cannot be awarded for reference entries and discussion postings, as well as for answers. I have closed some of my own questions without awarding any points for this very reason.
It would also be good to set a time limit for holding points (say, 5 years), after which you would go back to zero points and thus need to start again. I do feel that some people feel they have to give the points to whoever already has the most, on the basis that their suggestion must be right.
[Edited at 2013-02-08 14:19 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | |
The system works quite well in my language pair and specialities. Of course, sometimes the wrong answer is chosen and sometimes the wrong number of points is awarded and wrong glossary entries are made, but mostly it works fine. It helps a lot of people and it gives exposure to specialists in the field (some of whom I have cooperated with successfully after getting to "know" them in KuDoZ).
And I like my own directory ranking ... See more The system works quite well in my language pair and specialities. Of course, sometimes the wrong answer is chosen and sometimes the wrong number of points is awarded and wrong glossary entries are made, but mostly it works fine. It helps a lot of people and it gives exposure to specialists in the field (some of whom I have cooperated with successfully after getting to "know" them in KuDoZ).
And I like my own directory ranking ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jessie LN 
United Kingdom
Local time: 01:36
Spanish to English
+ ...
The only beef I have with KudoZ is that:
- in my language pair you really have to get to each question immediately after it's posted to stand any chance
- I feel like there's no way I can compete when it comes to directory ranking since it defaults to rank by KudoZ points
I enjoy answering KudoZ questions and trying to help people out, and I'm always very grateful for the help I'm given when I ask, but I feel like I'd have to spend all day, every day on there in... See more The only beef I have with KudoZ is that:
- in my language pair you really have to get to each question immediately after it's posted to stand any chance
- I feel like there's no way I can compete when it comes to directory ranking since it defaults to rank by KudoZ points
I enjoy answering KudoZ questions and trying to help people out, and I'm always very grateful for the help I'm given when I ask, but I feel like I'd have to spend all day, every day on there in order to earn enough points to increase my directory ranking.
As for mistranslations being added to glossaries, I think it's up to individual translators to conduct secondary research to make sure whatever terminology they choose is accurate. Just as you wouldn't rely solely on information from a Wikipedia article (or at least I hope nobody would...), you can't solely rely on information from the terminology database generated in KudoZ - it's not reviewed or monitored for accuracy and quality. It should be used as a stepping stone or guide, rather than a standalone resource.
[Edited at 2013-02-08 14:36 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
| The answer is NO. | Feb 8, 2013 |
Should the KudoZ points system be abolished? NO.
Tomas and Samuel have said it all. I coudn`t have said it better. Besides, Kudoz and the glossaries are some of the most important and helpful features Proz offers for our daily work.
This is a recurrent issue. Funny that every 1-2 years this question comes around again. I suggest the interested parties to browse the forum for similar proposals.
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 01:36
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Take additional factors into account | Feb 8, 2013 |
The waste-of-space answerers in the FR>EN pair don't bother me overmuch - we all know who they are, and they don't very often get the points because there are far too many answerers who DO know what they're talking about. Of course, if they're banding together and giving each other "agrees", then that muddies the water a little, but let's not throw the baby out with the bath-water.
So, could we do something with "disagrees", perhaps? Could we actually deduct points for disagrees? I'... See more The waste-of-space answerers in the FR>EN pair don't bother me overmuch - we all know who they are, and they don't very often get the points because there are far too many answerers who DO know what they're talking about. Of course, if they're banding together and giving each other "agrees", then that muddies the water a little, but let's not throw the baby out with the bath-water.
So, could we do something with "disagrees", perhaps? Could we actually deduct points for disagrees? I'm sure such a measure wouldn't affect most of us; I imagine we've all had a few (founded and unfounded) but not a significant number, whereas some people get loads of them but still keep answering questions, sometimes in pairs that don't appear in their profiles. ProZ.com holds all sorts of stats on our KudoZ asking/answering records, and there have been calls in the past for them to be taken into account when deciding on position in the directory. I'd like staff to reconsider that. I'd like to see our position depend on some sort of algorithm that takes account of numbers and ratios of agrees and disagrees, KudoZ points, number of points per question asked, ratio of questions asked to answered...
Certainly, I don't think the "all-time" points total should be used on its own to determine position; neither do I think we should be reset to zero on a particular date. It should be based, at least in part, on a rolling 3-month or annual period. In fact, I think that basing it on a whole set of factors would be best. It's not as though someone's going to have to sit down with a calculator each time - a one-time programming cost and a paragraph of documentation is all that it would need. ▲ Collapse
| | | |
... or at least uncoupled from the directory ranking or made an optional directory search criterion (whereby it is clearly explained to the searcher that lots of Kudoz demonstrates an excellent knowledge of or ability to find terminology, but only that).
Olly
| | | |
Jessie L. wrote:
As for mistranslations being added to glossaries, I think it's up to individual translators to conduct secondary research to make sure whatever terminology they choose is accurate. Just as you wouldn't rely solely on information from a Wikipedia article (or at least I hope nobody would...), you can't solely rely on information from the terminology database generated in KudoZ - it's not reviewed or monitored for accuracy and quality. It should be used as a stepping stone or guide, rather than a standalone resource.
[Edited at 2013-02-08 14:36 GMT]
if we were talking about real professional translators... unfortunately, it seems to be a an endangered species...
| | |
|
|
|
Tina Vonhof (X)
Canada
Local time: 18:36
Dutch to English
+ ...
| Improved not abolished | Feb 8, 2013 |
I agree with those who suggest it should be improved rather than abolished and they have explained their arguments very well, no need to repeat them.
One thing I have noticed is that when new members submit a forum post to ask how to get started and how to get jobs, the suggestion usually is to begin by improving their profile and to participate in Kudoz. I think it would not be unreasonable to require membership for one year and a more or less complete profile to be eligible to par... See more I agree with those who suggest it should be improved rather than abolished and they have explained their arguments very well, no need to repeat them.
One thing I have noticed is that when new members submit a forum post to ask how to get started and how to get jobs, the suggestion usually is to begin by improving their profile and to participate in Kudoz. I think it would not be unreasonable to require membership for one year and a more or less complete profile to be eligible to participate in Kudoz. You can hope that they have at least learned a few things during that year. There are many examples of other situations where you have to "pay your dues" before getting access to certain privileges.
I also think that new members should get an "orientation to proz.com" outlining not only the benefits of membership but also the expectations, a "code of participation" if you will, that they have to sign and submit. I know, this will not eliminate the worst abusers, but it will make those who are serious more aware.
Lastly, I think people should not be allowed to answer Kudoz questions in other language pairs than their own. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Yes, abolish the points system - it is flawed and alienating | Feb 8, 2013 |
Yes, the points system should be abolished.
As far as I can see there is a fatal flaw at the heart of the system, namely that an inadequate translator 'A' can ask a question (or lots of questions) which can then be answered by inadequate translator 'B' who has plenty of time on her/his hands, and the poor answer is then approved by translator A, giving B the KudoZ 'points'. Translator B then moves up the directory rankings.
I'm not suggesting that this is what actually... See more Yes, the points system should be abolished.
As far as I can see there is a fatal flaw at the heart of the system, namely that an inadequate translator 'A' can ask a question (or lots of questions) which can then be answered by inadequate translator 'B' who has plenty of time on her/his hands, and the poor answer is then approved by translator A, giving B the KudoZ 'points'. Translator B then moves up the directory rankings.
I'm not suggesting that this is what actually happens (I've seen some fantastic answers), but the potential is definitely there.
Also I think it is worrying that clients/agencies think they are getting a good translator on the basis of KudoZ points. They might well be, but they might be getting anything but. Do clients actually have any idea how it works? And why should people who choose not to participate in the system, for whatever reason, be disadvantaged?
On a more personal level I find something slightly undignified about offering suggestions to other translators simply in order to rack up 'points'. I agree with the original poster who said that it introduces an inappropriately competitive atmosphere (it reminds me of school, never a good thing!). Surely it would be more professional to have a forum where people felt free to offer tentative or discursive answers, and were motivated to answer a question because of a genuine interest in that question? ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Genuine-interest-based system already exists | Feb 8, 2013 |
J. Gardiner wrote:
Surely it would be more professional to have a forum where people felt free to offer tentative or discursive answers, and were motivated to answer a question because of a genuine interest in that question?
Just check "not for points" in the current system.
I won't answer your question though.
P.S. There is also the Discussion area in each Kudoz question where people (me included) offer their opinions and even translation options without competing for points.
[Edited at 2013-02-08 16:25 GMT]
| | | |
Take the ranking system away, and Kudoz loses its lure. I'm ok with the overly competitive spirit as long as it's a fair playing grounds. It's a game after all.
[Edited at 2013-02-08 17:10 GMT]
| | |
|
|
|
Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 01:36
Hebrew to English
| Blind leading the visually challenged | Feb 8, 2013 |
J. Gardiner wrote:
As far as I can see there is a fatal flaw at the heart of the system, namely that an inadequate translator 'A' can ask a question (or lots of questions) which can then be answered by inadequate translator 'B' who has plenty of time on her/his hands, and the poor answer is then approved by translator A, giving B the KudoZ 'points'. Translator B then moves up the directory rankings.
I'm not suggesting that this is what actually happens
Oh it does (unfortunately). I've seen instances (not in my language pair thankfully) where the answerer is perhaps only marginally less clueless than the asker. This never ends well and probably can account for some, if not most, of the more heinous glossary entries people keep referring to.
Mikhail Kropotov wrote:
Just check "not for points" in the current system.
KudoZ-etiquette doesn't allow for this. From what I've seen, purposefully choosing to withhold points in a system where you have the option of granting them is viewed with suspicion at best, and downright hostility at worst.
| | | |
Ty Kendall wrote: Mikhail Kropotov wrote:
Just check "not for points" in the current system. KudoZ-etiquette doesn't allow for this. From what I've seen, purposefully choosing to withhold points in a system where you have the option of granting them is viewed with suspicion at best, and downright hostility at worst.
Exactly, as evidenced by my next sentence where I said "I won't answer your question though."
In fact, if the world were full of people who're happy to give away valuable information for nothing, the no-points option wouldn't even be necessary. As it stands, any altruist is welcome to answer any question without worrying about points - they're not supposed to care whose answer is selected, are they?
| | | | Ildiko Santana
United States
Local time: 17:36
Member (2002)
Hungarian to English
+ ...
MODERATOR | Should the KudoZ points system be abolished? | Feb 8, 2013 |
Yes.
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Should the KudoZ points system be abolished? | Trados Business Manager Lite | Create customer quotes and invoices from within Trados Studio
Trados Business Manager Lite helps to simplify and speed up some of the daily tasks, such as invoicing and reporting, associated with running your freelance translation business.
More info » |
| | Trados Studio 2022 Freelance | The leading translation software used by over 270,000 translators.
Designed with your feedback in mind, Trados Studio 2022 delivers an unrivalled, powerful desktop
and cloud solution, empowering you to work in the most efficient and cost-effective way.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
