| Pages in topic: [1 2 3 4 5] > | Leaning on Kudoz for translations that are over your head? Thread poster: Anne Pinaglia
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Anne Pinaglia
Netherlands
Local time: 22:12
Italian to English
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I've noticed that there are a few translators on Proz who use the Kudoz system quite a bit, and of course "quite a bit" means different things to different people - but I specifically mean posting something to the effect of 15 questions a day regarding one document.
I've also noticed that many (maybe even most) of these questions tend to be on the easy-medium scale of difficulty, that would generally require a quick web search to find out the right term (they're not obscure terms i... See more I've noticed that there are a few translators on Proz who use the Kudoz system quite a bit, and of course "quite a bit" means different things to different people - but I specifically mean posting something to the effect of 15 questions a day regarding one document.
I've also noticed that many (maybe even most) of these questions tend to be on the easy-medium scale of difficulty, that would generally require a quick web search to find out the right term (they're not obscure terms in the least). Instead of doing the search themselves, translators go directly to Kudoz hoping/expecting that the nature of Kudoz - translators helping other translators - will bail them out.
And they get their questions answered most of the time.
I wonder however, at what point does this help actually encourage the translator to continue taking projects that are way over their head - or not even in their language pairs?
Has anyone else noticed this or have a feeling one way or the other? ▲ Collapse
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Although I agree with you, I prefer to think it could be due to a lack of confidence.
I'm not one to ask translation-related questions here, or anywhere, as I prefer to find what I'm looking for by myself, but I imagine there are some people who just need a few words of assurance now and again.
In the majority of jobs people can consult colleagues whenever they have a doubt, but translators do their jobs alone! When we do our job well, no one says anything but if we ma... See more Although I agree with you, I prefer to think it could be due to a lack of confidence.
I'm not one to ask translation-related questions here, or anywhere, as I prefer to find what I'm looking for by myself, but I imagine there are some people who just need a few words of assurance now and again.
In the majority of jobs people can consult colleagues whenever they have a doubt, but translators do their jobs alone! When we do our job well, no one says anything but if we make a mistake, then I suppose life can get pretty unpleasant.
Some people ask questions to assure themselves they've understood the text correctly and some people answer questions to be able to "switch off" for a couple of minutes. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Not to worry | Mar 17, 2012 |
After seeing this practice for almost a decade, all I can say is: do not worry unnecessarily. A translator who takes a job he/she's not qualified to do will make a mess of it, with or without Kudoz, and customers will notice and will look for qualified translators sooner or later. They (and I mean both the unqualified translator and the uncareful customer) learn the lesson very quickly.
| | | | Claudia Cherici 
Italy
Local time: 22:12
Member (2010)
English to Italian
+ ...
I agree with you guys completely
I recently reported one particular asker in my language pair to one of the moderators, after he or she had posted up to 10 questions a day, all incredibly easy for professional translator standards.
I feel that this practice diminishes the value of Kudoz
I was answered that while one of the kudoz guidelines suggests not to ask questions the answers to which can be found elsewhere (dictionaries, the net etc), this is just a g... See more I agree with you guys completely
I recently reported one particular asker in my language pair to one of the moderators, after he or she had posted up to 10 questions a day, all incredibly easy for professional translator standards.
I feel that this practice diminishes the value of Kudoz
I was answered that while one of the kudoz guidelines suggests not to ask questions the answers to which can be found elsewhere (dictionaries, the net etc), this is just a guideline and not an obligation
Still, I feel that submitting a complete translation in this way, questione after question, means cheating; it damages our community and our image ▲ Collapse
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Tina Vonhof (X)
Canada
Local time: 14:12
Dutch to English
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And then there are those who appear to translating from their native language into English and ask numerous questions, such as "is this correct?" or "which translation is better?"
| | | | | My own decision | Mar 17, 2012 |
Once upon a time, 8 to 9 years ago, I was an avid KudoZ participant. It was a friendlier time. We used the “agrees” and even the “neutrals” to say hello to each other. We were playing “translation Scrabble” among colleagues from all over the world. It was fun and addictive. However, things at KudoZ changed, as it is expected when an organization grows.
I was a very successful player. I got a decent amount of KudoZ points, with an average points/questions asked of over ... See more Once upon a time, 8 to 9 years ago, I was an avid KudoZ participant. It was a friendlier time. We used the “agrees” and even the “neutrals” to say hello to each other. We were playing “translation Scrabble” among colleagues from all over the world. It was fun and addictive. However, things at KudoZ changed, as it is expected when an organization grows.
I was a very successful player. I got a decent amount of KudoZ points, with an average points/questions asked of over 2.1, meaning that the askers had accepted more than 50% of my answers. I had not asked by then, and neither I have today, any questions. No, I am not the know-it-all translator, but, to give context to my question, I had to disclose info from the document I was translating, something that might risk breaching any confidentiality agreement I might have signed. No, not all context info you might disclose would breach those agreements, but I did not want to take a decision re what it was or was not confidential regarding info that was not mine to disclose.
Once upon a time, I saw on ProZ a job offer, re a patent application. It was later in the day, and when I sent an email to the agency posting the job, they told me that they had only the claim section to assign. It was due for the next day. If I was comfortable with the subject, a chemical patent application, I could start. I am a patent attorney with a graduate degree in chemical engineering, as well as an ATA-certified translator.
I reviewed the section, and listed 15 technical terms I wanted to check. Within 15 minutes, I had found the answer for 14 of them. Only one was pending. I sent a message to the agency that I was doing the project and went to have dinner.
When I returned, I had a message from the agency that the client had cancelled the project –Yeah, right then, when I had gotten the last part available, after hours that other translators had been working on the entire file. I could bill them for whatever I had done. I told them not to worry, that I would charge my time to overhead. I went on to work on other projects I had.
Shortly thereafter, I saw 20-25 KudoZ quetions on the subject, my 15 plus 5 to 10 sophomoric questions. It was a time when no limit had been imposed in the number of questions asked. I did not mind, it was a small project. However, I started to think that I was helping “parvenues” to take away jobs from professional colleagues. I could not accept being an “accomplice” to such bastardization of the profession.
It took me awhile to overcome my addiction to playing KudoZ, but I finally did. Other than a couple of questions that I thought badly answered, I have not participated in KudoZ ever since. Fortunately, I do not have to do so to be known to my clients.
I am not saying one must not participate in KudoZ. I am not telling anyone what he or she should do or not do. I am just saying that I do not intend to participate in KudoZ ever again.
Best, Luis. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Anne Pinaglia
Netherlands
Local time: 22:12
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | I can see what you mean, Luis | Mar 17, 2012 |
I enjoy answering questions when I can help another translator out. I've only asked a few questions and they were ones that I couldn't find anywhere (to date probably three or four) and I was very grateful to receive help - after all, even if you know a lot about a subject it certainly doesn't mean you know everything.
I just get the feeling that, as Luis said, there is a degradation of the system itself - not because the system has changed, but because the users have changed.
| | | | Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:12
Hebrew to English
| A well known mosquito, forever biting.... | Mar 18, 2012 |
Wow! Italian to English has really suffered an assault the past few days! I feel your pain.
If only it were possible (as a group - IT>EN translators) to just boycott the asker...unfortunately this is a pipe dream since someone will always answer, either out of a bit of misguided kindness or points-grabbing or some other reason...
It does seem that there are certain "people" playing the system, not specifically breaking the rules, but definitely violating the spirit of the rule... See more Wow! Italian to English has really suffered an assault the past few days! I feel your pain.
If only it were possible (as a group - IT>EN translators) to just boycott the asker...unfortunately this is a pipe dream since someone will always answer, either out of a bit of misguided kindness or points-grabbing or some other reason...
It does seem that there are certain "people" playing the system, not specifically breaking the rules, but definitely violating the spirit of the rules, yet they are immune to action due to the fact that they stay within the wording of the rules.
Perhaps if enough people complain officially (via support requests) then maybe something will be done, or not....try building a case, gathering evidence or possible rule breaks, then when you have substantial evidence, take it to the powers that be.
It is somewhat disappointing that many, many translators in French-English, Spanish-English and Italian-English are united in their dissatisfaction with this.... situation and yet the din of cries are falling on deaf ears. ▲ Collapse
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| Led Zeppelin | Mar 18, 2012 |
All I can say is Track 9 , Led Zeppelin on Led Zeppelin (1969).
Suzi
| | | | Heinrich Pesch
Finland
Local time: 23:12
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
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| Points-hunting? | Mar 18, 2012 |
Could it be that the points go to one and the same user? In that case it is an abuse of the system. Otherwise there is nothing wrong with it, the points go to those who have time to answer.
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Claudia Cherici wrote:
I feel that this practice diminishes the value of Kudoz
I do not agree. Kudoz has had the same value (i.e. all information to be taken with care) since the very beginning, but perhaps you hadn't noticed up to now.
| | | | neilmac
Spain
Local time: 22:12
Spanish to English
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| Here we are again | Mar 18, 2012 |
This has come up before. In fact a translator friend living nearby was complaining loudly about it to me just recently about one person in partiular who seemed to be doing a whole document line by line on kudoz... and we had a right old rant about it. It is pretty obvious a lot of the time that the "guilty" translators are:
a) lacking sufficient expertise in the target language or register (in our case English) whether they are "native" speaker, bilingual or otherwise;
b) unfamiliar ... See more This has come up before. In fact a translator friend living nearby was complaining loudly about it to me just recently about one person in partiular who seemed to be doing a whole document line by line on kudoz... and we had a right old rant about it. It is pretty obvious a lot of the time that the "guilty" translators are:
a) lacking sufficient expertise in the target language or register (in our case English) whether they are "native" speaker, bilingual or otherwise;
b) unfamiliar with the field and context of the text.
These are things we (my immediate colleagues and I) feel strongly about, and I suppose one option is to discourage this type of incursion by simply not responding; however, I myself am a bit of a word geek or quiz nut and I can't help trying to answer kudoz questions if I think I can contribute (or flaunt my putative expertise). I'm also often tempted to make a snippy aside or suggest the asker seek another activity, but the site rules are quite strict on this so all too often we have to keep a lid on our true feelings.
In the past I've thought about suggesting an area on site like a "sin bin" where "anything goes" and people could at least let off steam by posting rants about anything like this that gets up their nose, without actually insulting any one individual or entity in particular. For example, on Skype if you type in (swear) you get a nicely expressive little icon to this end.
However, I doubt the idea would be welcomed by the powers that be. ▲ Collapse
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neilmac
Spain
Local time: 22:12
Spanish to English
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| Safety in numbers | Mar 18, 2012 |
Helena Chavarria wrote:
... I imagine there are some people who just need a few words of assurance now and again.
In the majority of jobs people can consult colleagues whenever they have a doubt, but translators do their jobs alone!
Some people ask questions to assure themselves they've understood the text correctly and some people answer questions to be able to "switch off" for a couple of minutes.
A very good point. I myself often simply want to "brainstorm" some peers for opinions about which word to choose for a particular target or purpose, for example between US and UK English, like last week when I had to ask about "trainers" vs "sneakers". The answers were very helpful and rather surprising.
No translator is an island.
| | | | Claudia Cherici
Italy
Local time: 22:12
Member (2010)
English to Italian
+ ...
I am perfectly aware of the "all information to be taken with care" rule.
It's not what I mean: I mean Kudoz should be a place for professional, qualified translators looking for ways out of really sticky translation points.
People like the asker I was referring to 'contaminate' it with silly or at the very least unprofessional queries, so on certain days, the rate of interesting to uninteresting questions becomes 1 to 10...
They contaminate the environment, is what I meant
| | | | Maria Dimitrova
Bulgaria
Local time: 23:12
Member (2011)
Bulgarian to English
+ ...
| Everyone needs to start from somewhere, before becoming a pro | Mar 18, 2012 |
I don't see anything wrong with overusing KudoZ, if you don't breach the site rules or the NDA rules. If you have just started as a translator, you don't have the word-searching skills yet and you surely need some reassurance from colleagues with more experience. It is better to consult your colleagues, than deliver low-quality translation. Besides, there is an option to vote to re-classify some easy questions as non-Pro. It is a win-win situation, the translator gets help and the answerer gets ... See more I don't see anything wrong with overusing KudoZ, if you don't breach the site rules or the NDA rules. If you have just started as a translator, you don't have the word-searching skills yet and you surely need some reassurance from colleagues with more experience. It is better to consult your colleagues, than deliver low-quality translation. Besides, there is an option to vote to re-classify some easy questions as non-Pro. It is a win-win situation, the translator gets help and the answerer gets some points and improves his or her ranking in the database.
I myself have used KudoZ a lot in the past, when I was starting as a translator. Of course, I have never tried to translate almost each sentence, but I really sought help quite often. Now when I go back and see what stupid questions I have asked, I even feel a bit ashamed. But then, this is just normal, translation skills improve over time and as you gain more experience, you need less help. Now I try to use KudoZ more often for answering questions, than asking, although, I still need to consult colleagues every now and then.
So I think we have to be more tolerant to beginners - they might ask easy questions now, but you never know, maybe they will improve their skills rapidly and will be able to even help you out with difficult terms in the future. ▲ Collapse
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