| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Sneaky ways to improve your KudoZ statistics Thread poster: philgoddard
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| How many questions do Kudoz leaders ask? | Jun 17, 2010 |
Rob Grayson wrote:
As a corollary to this, I would say that the number of KudoZ points a user has racked up is not necessarily a good indicator of expertise. Some of the highest point scorers in my pair persistently post answers that are 100% wrong.
What worries me is not that some Kudoz leaders in my language pairs post wrong answers (after all, answers are always open to discussion), but how many simple questions they make themselves when they translate.
To me, a measure of a good translator is someone who can answer Kudoz questions in a sound manner, with indisputable explanations and references, and who asks really very little in Kudoz.
| | | | | As a newbie yes...Now not all... | Jun 17, 2010 |
Hello,
When I started I was crazy about Kudoz and answering them...Now with my work load I'm not really into that anymore...I seldom snatch a glimpse to the kudoz and if there is a term I know I can help with I do it or else I don't try at all...
I guess that when you get more experience you realize that it's more about helping a colleague in a pinch than about your stats...
Anyways, one can get clients without being at the top of the Kudoz list....
<... See more Hello,
When I started I was crazy about Kudoz and answering them...Now with my work load I'm not really into that anymore...I seldom snatch a glimpse to the kudoz and if there is a term I know I can help with I do it or else I don't try at all...
I guess that when you get more experience you realize that it's more about helping a colleague in a pinch than about your stats...
Anyways, one can get clients without being at the top of the Kudoz list....
Regards, ▲ Collapse
| | | | | That being so... | Jun 17, 2010 |
philgoddard wrote:
Has anyone else made any interesting discoveries about their statistics? I don't want any answers saying "points don't matter" - let's assume for the sake of argument that they do.
... why on earth would I reveal my sneaky tricks for making me look better?
(I do have one, not mentioned thus far, I may reveal it if no-one else does! )
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Sneaky ways to reduce someone's Kudoz statistics
What would you do in my situation?
1) Since December I received about 120-150 disagreements from a person to my answers - nobody else sent me so many. This person began to write such comments to my answers or to my peer comments, which have nothing to do with the term related to the question, like I say "the term car means something else" and this person answers to my peer comment with copying and pasting the definitio... See more Sneaky ways to reduce someone's Kudoz statistics
What would you do in my situation?
1) Since December I received about 120-150 disagreements from a person to my answers - nobody else sent me so many. This person began to write such comments to my answers or to my peer comments, which have nothing to do with the term related to the question, like I say "the term car means something else" and this person answers to my peer comment with copying and pasting the definition of the term "book". I ask back: why did you write the definition of the term "'book" if your answer was "car" ? And you can have a sure bet that my peer comment/discussion post disappears (although only this part related to his/her answer the rest of my discussion post was a perfect prove why the answer of her/him was wrong). Very tricky?
2) Many times this person was copying my answers (or others') and posted them as his/her own 1 hour - 2 days after my answer (probably she/he received a warning about not to do that because she/he showed a reducing tendency in that)
3) When it comes to my answer this person cannot think like a professional, she/he needs to manipulate the results, even if he/she knows exactly that my answer is correct or his/her or the other answer is wrong, she/he will definitely put an agree to the other answer or send a disagree to me.
4) tactic: Writing totally unambiguous discussion posts or peer comments to make the asker and the answerers/peer commenters totally confused. Adding texts which don't even relate directly to the question. Many times bad terms appear in the glossary because of these tricks.
5) Modifying peer comments and answers all the time, usually when I reject all the objections, I receive a modification note that his/her answer/peer comment has been modified by her/him and so my answer to his/her peer comment is not relevant any more. Then again I receive another notification concerning that this person modified xy many times her/his answer. My email is full of notifications of his/her disagreements/modifications. Not typo related modifications, but changing her/his whole peer comment/answer to my peer comment.
6) If I get appreciation by another colleague online on the site or on other online media, these tricks get more intense.
In spite of these tricks fortunately some askers are intelligent enough to see that there is no good faith behind her/his comments/posts and disagreements and most of the time they don't have to do with professional translational/linguistics logical points. But at the same time askers (new users) don't see these tricks through and they think that everybody is writing an answer/peer comments with good faith and only to help the asker. But unfortunately that's not the case (see the tricks above). There are many other tactics he/she using against my Kudoz activity, but I don't mention them because that would be against site rules.
With creating illogical debates and reporting sometimes totally innocent posts he/she is wasting the time of the asker, my time, other answerers' time. I understand his/her message: she/he doesn't want me to use the Kudoz and tries to undermine my reputation.
Fortunately many colleagues know and see these unethical tricks since Kudoz is open to the world and those who are professionals can differentiate these covert personal attacks from real linguistic related comments. Now the question is: what can be done?
And the more successful I get, the intensity of these tricks gets higher.
According to some colleagues it's like a flea attacking an elephant but still I don't think it's right to find the gates between rules and using them against someone.
So what would you do in my situation?
Best regards,
Katalin
[Edited at 2010-06-17 12:52 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Evans (X)
Local time: 00:47
Spanish to English
+ ...
| There is little point | Jun 17, 2010 |
in getting hung up on points, as Askers sometimes make very perverse choices.
I also agree with Rob that a lot of answers are way off the mark, and these tend to give a confidence level of 5! I sometimes offer an answer spurred to find a solution on by the sight of answers that are obviously no help to the Asker.
But mainly I do it for the fun of the chase. Research is the aspect of translation that I enjoy the most anyway.
If I have the time, and I know th... See more in getting hung up on points, as Askers sometimes make very perverse choices.
I also agree with Rob that a lot of answers are way off the mark, and these tend to give a confidence level of 5! I sometimes offer an answer spurred to find a solution on by the sight of answers that are obviously no help to the Asker.
But mainly I do it for the fun of the chase. Research is the aspect of translation that I enjoy the most anyway.
If I have the time, and I know the subject area, I enjoy tracking down an obscure term as much as offering one I happen to know. I also enjoy the creative ones although, as Emma points out, they are less likely to yield points. Another reason not to be too concerned about them.
Another aspect is the sense of community it brings me. I know, sad really! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Alison Sabedoria (X) 
United Kingdom
French to English
+ ...
| Lies, damned lies and ... KudoZ stats? | Jun 17, 2010 |
If I need a good laugh, I consult my KudoZ stats:
100% acceptance rate in Old and Middle French (but then I appear to be first in a field of...erm...about...er...one) 
100% acceptance rate in French to English / Botany (good, as it's one of my specialities; but don't look too closely, it's 100% out of just 2 questions)
39.1% acceptance rate in English to French (there was... See more If I need a good laugh, I consult my KudoZ stats:
100% acceptance rate in Old and Middle French (but then I appear to be first in a field of...erm...about...er...one)
100% acceptance rate in French to English / Botany (good, as it's one of my specialities; but don't look too closely, it's 100% out of just 2 questions)
39.1% acceptance rate in English to French (there was a time when I was answering far more questions that way round).
Apparently I'm as much of an expert (!!??) in Electronics/Electricity as I am in Cooking or Poetry/Literature (guffaw, guffaw! Though it's true I can rewire a house).
Like Phil, I'm resigned to the unlikelihood of shining in a heavily oversubscribed language pair and arty-farty fields, subject to miriad equally valid interpretations, so I jump in on the occasional technical question just for fun.
I employ the 2 minute rule too, apart from the odd - sometimes VERY odd - question that I just have to get to the bottom of. I've acquired some truly bizarre snippets of arcane knowledge like that (the rabbit-eared comb jelly springs to mind) - my brain's full of the stuff, and if it was ever to manifest physically, it would resemble some exotic emporium of curiosities.
@ Creativity: My advice is to rise above it. By your own behaviour, show yourself for what you are, and leave this other person to show him/herself for what he/she really is, exasperating though it may be. My defence philosophy is based on martial arts: use your opponent's own energy/anger against him/herself by leading the gesture through to its inevitable conclusion. Give a person enough rope...
[Edited at 2010-06-17 13:26 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Paula Borges
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:47
Member (2010)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Rob Grayson wrote:
I honestly couldn't care less how many KudoZ points I have. So why do I bother to answer questions?
When I first started out as a translator a few years ago, KudoZ helped me out on a few occasions. I found help from a number of more experienced translators. Over time, I've noticed that the reliability of answers in my pair (FR>EN) has reduced dramatically. Many of the answers posted, sometimes with a 100% confidence level, are, frankly, wild guesses from people who have no experience in the field in question – some of whom, in my humble opinion, have such a poor grasp of both source and target languages that they have no business being a translator at all. The unfortunate thing is that many askers just assume that these answerers know what they're talking about and choose their answers. So, my biggest motivation for staying involved in KudoZ is altruistic: I don't want to see the KudoZ archives filled with junk; I want future users to be able to find genuine help there.
As a corollary to this, I would say that the number of KudoZ points a user has racked up is not necessarily a good indicator of expertise. Some of the highest point scorers in my pair persistently post answers that are 100% wrong. I can only assume that they manage to garner such large numbers of points through (a) answering so many questions that they get some right, and (b) managing to fool quite a few askers into believing that their answers are right.
I'd say (a) leads to (b).
I agree with Gilla, the sense of community is there. I do check Kudoz glossaries often, and will ask the occasional question (if my research is inconclusive).
It does bother me when people are so hungry for points they will argue over every little thing and behave like spoilt children, disagree with answers that are also correct, behave with disrespect.Or when they argue about language variant.
In my case, the questions usually specify Brazilian or European Portuguese. People that do not speak the variant specified answer anyway and then argue about how the other variant is wrong or inferior.
While I find these differences fascinating, some people will treat them with utter disrespect. But it doesn't bother me, you can imagine how much these people that cry over Kudoz points are stubborn in real life? I feel sorry for the proofreaders they work with.
[Edited at 2010-06-17 13:21 GMT]
| | | | Jeff Whittaker
United States
Local time: 19:47
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Answering KudoZ | Jun 17, 2010 |
I rarely answer KudoZ anymore. I just try to keep my number of questions answered over my questions asked (I've only asked 3 questions this year so far - all abbreviations). For fun, I will sometimes pick a KudoZ question and pretend "what if this term were part of my current project, how would I translate it?". However, I do not post my answer. I will wait and see if I can come up with the same answer/solution as those who respond.
The problem is that you have to be so fast in ord... See more I rarely answer KudoZ anymore. I just try to keep my number of questions answered over my questions asked (I've only asked 3 questions this year so far - all abbreviations). For fun, I will sometimes pick a KudoZ question and pretend "what if this term were part of my current project, how would I translate it?". However, I do not post my answer. I will wait and see if I can come up with the same answer/solution as those who respond.
The problem is that you have to be so fast in order to beat those people who seem to answer every single question and if you make a mistake because you are going so fast, these same people will then take their time to post a more coherent response and then chastise you for your (wrong/incomplete/hasty) answer.
Perhaps there should be a daily limit to the number of KudoZ you can answer. ▲ Collapse
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Paula Borges
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:47
Member (2010)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Jeff Whittaker wrote:
Perhaps there should be a daily limit to the number of KudoZ you can answer.
Not a bad idea! Since some people are so desperate to answer every single question as fast as they can, making kudoz glossaries highly unreliable. That would problem sort that out!
| | | | | Thank you for your words Wordeffect | Jun 17, 2010 |
Wordeffect wrote:
@ Creativity: My advice is to rise above it. By your own behaviour, show yourself for what you are, and leave this other person to show him/herself for what he/she really is, exasperating though it may be. My defence philosophy is based on martial arts: use your opponent's own energy/anger against him/herself by leading the gesture through to its inevitable conclusion. Give a person enough rope...
[Edited at 2010-06-17 13:26 GMT]
Hi Wordeffect,
Thank you for your suggestion. I know that basically with this tactics she/he also shows a very bad picture about himself/herself and about her/his unprofessional attitude, not only towards colleagues, but towards the whole world since Kudoz is online. But I think what this person is doing goes beyond any ethics by now.
For example: let's her/him call XX. When someone else (XY) used a rude word against me in the discussion post (XY has problems with everyone in that language pair and he has been reported many times). Me and a colleague of mine told XY in the discussion post to calm down and moderate herself/himself, then XX reported my post in which I tried to calm XY down and my post was not against any site rules. I was the one who received the attack from XY and I tried to calm the attacker down. So XX was not even included in the dicussion post.
Fortunately the staff figured out the trick. But these situations are wasting my time.
XX is using all the gates between the rules what she/he can use against me.
So this is not only about disagreements but it's much much deeper by now. Fortunately there are so many nice colleagues and beautiful things on this world and I'm a person who always tries to look the funny side of XX's miserable new tricks.
But since he/she has been using this tactics since December (recently again) I decided to ask help on the forum maybe somebody has been in a situation like that and could give me tips. When I saw this forum post I thought it was a good idea to ask other members' opinion.
Again thanks telling your opinion.
Have a nice day!
Best regards,
Katalin
[Edited at 2010-06-17 15:36 GMT]
| | | | Gerard de Noord
France
Local time: 01:47
Member (2003)
English to Dutch
+ ...
| Efficient ways to improve your KudoZ statistics | Jun 17, 2010 |
I'd prefer to call myself methodic, rather than sneaky.
I've set the number of KudoZ questions on the home page to 30.
I use the ProZ filter for KudoZ askers. I ban colleagues without much thought but delete the wole list now and again. Everybody gets a second (seventh?) chance.
I'll read most questions that will drop off the home page soon, certainly those with 0 answers. They're shown to me longer, because I don't see the unrewarding questions.
I'll spend a maxim... See more I'd prefer to call myself methodic, rather than sneaky.
I've set the number of KudoZ questions on the home page to 30.
I use the ProZ filter for KudoZ askers. I ban colleagues without much thought but delete the wole list now and again. Everybody gets a second (seventh?) chance.
I'll read most questions that will drop off the home page soon, certainly those with 0 answers. They're shown to me longer, because I don't see the unrewarding questions.
I'll spend a maximum of five minutes to find an answer I can substantiate with an online source.
I often get the points - through lack of competition and/or because the asker will be nagged by the KudoZ system to close the question.
Happy grabbing,
Gerard ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Thank you and conclusion | Jun 18, 2010 |
Even before I wrote this forum post I had already talked with a lawyer (in the country of this person) concerning this issue (in case if things gets worse). Although I have never met, talked, never sent an e-mail or msg to this person, but this issue started here (and it's more intense), and as far as I'm concerned it also goes beyond KudoZ or Proz by now.
I would like to thank for those, who sent me a private message and told their opinions, experiences, tips. Here I would like to ... See more Even before I wrote this forum post I had already talked with a lawyer (in the country of this person) concerning this issue (in case if things gets worse). Although I have never met, talked, never sent an e-mail or msg to this person, but this issue started here (and it's more intense), and as far as I'm concerned it also goes beyond KudoZ or Proz by now.
I would like to thank for those, who sent me a private message and told their opinions, experiences, tips. Here I would like to mention that none of us have mentioned any concrete names or countries concerning any issues.
Thanks again for those who shared their opinions!
It's good to have a community who is ready to help.
Best regards,
Katalin
[Edited at 2010-06-18 14:41 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Ildiko Santana
United States
Local time: 16:47
Member (2002)
Hungarian to English
+ ...
MODERATOR | the "fast and furious" way | Jun 18, 2010 |
One method I'm noticing here that is typical of those who are very serious point hunters is that they pounce on almost every single question posted, within minutes they enter an answer that is usually incorrect, only to revisit the same questions later, usually repeatedly, fixing it, patching it up, adding multiple corrections. This secures their time stamp (they were the first to answer) and at the same time pretty much eliminates anyone else's chance to provide answers in the event that the co... See more One method I'm noticing here that is typical of those who are very serious point hunters is that they pounce on almost every single question posted, within minutes they enter an answer that is usually incorrect, only to revisit the same questions later, usually repeatedly, fixing it, patching it up, adding multiple corrections. This secures their time stamp (they were the first to answer) and at the same time pretty much eliminates anyone else's chance to provide answers in the event that the correct answer happens to be amongst the many variants provided under the same answer. If they receive disagrees on their main entry, they argue that their *last* answer should be taken into account only, not their first. If someone else posts the correct answer often they get accused with "stealing" by these point grabbers. I would call this method more than just "sneaky;" it's quite unfair to others, in my opinion, but works for them, point-wise anyway. One might wonder, though, what's their real gain. Spending every waking hour wrapped up in point grabbing doesn't suggest that these folks have too many real jobs, so all we can do is wish them well and hope their career as translators will eventually take off... : ) ▲ Collapse
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ildiko wrote:
doesn't suggest that these folks have too many real jobs, ... : )
Exactly that's my problem: this person doesn't have any jobs, and she/he is everywhere where I am, Kudoz, forums. Like a stalker. Once he/she mentioned if a system can be abused, it is going to be abused. So obviously she/he is even proud of this method. His/her new trick is reporting innocent words. It's very easy to present willfully mistranslated sentences in front of the judge, which are not even against any rules. Then of course I have to send the real and correct translation of my sentence and it's wasting staff's and my time. If somebody has the time for this then what kind of "career" he/she can have?
She/he thinks that Kudoz is like the Saint Grail. It's not. It's good for helping others, it's a cool game (of course if players play it fairly), good for learning and research, it may good a marketing but it doesn't mean anything if it's not supported by the combination of logic, education, proved development, real references and ethical professional behavior (respecting others).
You can simply tell from Kudoz who are those
who are trying to cheat by copying (if somebody copies exactly the same answer, which has been answered previously about 1 hr-2 days ago but gives a childish explanation, that's called cheating)
who are not just using dictionaries/online researches, but they use their brain/logic and are able to see the big picture
who are able to admit if they make a mistake (it's very important - since to err is human), and not insisting on their incorrect suggestions if they see that they are wrong
who send disagrees and agrees based on their expertise/experience (if they have) and not whether they like the peer commented person or not
who are answering with good faith
whom you would contact for collaboration or whom you would refer to some clients if you are fully scheduled for example
So simply it's a good way to get to know the community within your language pairs. But just as in every community there are troublemakers, and if the media and colleagues are professionals, sooner or later the person will be ignored/kicked out either way. As far as I'm concerned the latter happened with this person in that past, but came back under a different profile name. Also he/she had problems in a different online forum a few years ago.
It seems some people just can't change ...
Professional colleagues see these tricks, they send me e-mails like "I have seen it", even askers send me e-mails that it's disgusting what this person is doing (and of course the asker is annoyed since he/she wants to receive the correct answer and doesn't want to be confused only because this person peer commenting or posting discussions not with good faith). Actually many times askers don't even dare to ask a Kudoz any more, because you can be sure that this person will be there and will totally mess up the question.
So basically the professional community is united against this person. But the tricks and stalking do exist and gets intense depending on the mood of this person.
I received many supporting emails and I'm thankful for that.
Let's hope that this person's private life gets better, will get a job soon, so he/she won't have time to make a personal crusade against me or any other colleagues.
If not, then either way elephants live longer than fleas.
Best regards,
Katalin
[Edited at 2010-06-19 08:35 GMT]
| | | | Catherine Muir
Australia
Local time: 09:47
Indonesian to English
+ ...
In memoriam | Racking up points a cultural thing in my pair | Aug 16, 2010 |
Rob Grayson wrote:
"... I would say that the number of KudoZ points a user has racked up is not necessarily a good indicator of expertise. Some of the highest point scorers in my pair persistently post answers that are 100% wrong. I can only assume that they manage to garner such large numbers of points through (a) answering so many questions that they get some right, and (b) managing to fool quite a few askers into believing that their answers are right."
I agree. In my pair... See more Rob Grayson wrote:
"... I would say that the number of KudoZ points a user has racked up is not necessarily a good indicator of expertise. Some of the highest point scorers in my pair persistently post answers that are 100% wrong. I can only assume that they manage to garner such large numbers of points through (a) answering so many questions that they get some right, and (b) managing to fool quite a few askers into believing that their answers are right."
I agree. In my pair, it seems to be a cultural thing to rack up points, but because the blind are leading the blind, i.e, native speakers on one side of the pair are asking and answering each other's questions, with very little contribution from users from the other side of the pair, there are undesired consequences. I've even been told I must not disagree, to respect the culture of the other side.
I pity the end user of the translations these answers are being fed into. Hopefully the damage is not fatal to anyone! ▲ Collapse
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