Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Deutsch term or phrase:
verzweigte (Wissensstruktur)
Englisch translation:
diversified, differentiated, decentralized, complex (knowledge structure)
Added to glossary by
Helen Shiner
Jul 31, 2008 10:34
15 yrs ago
1 viewer *
Deutsch term
Vereinigtes Königreich
Arts/Academic translator - Art historian
Native in: Englisch
Works in: Deutsch > Englisch, Französisch > Englisch
verzweigte Wissensstruktur
Deutsch > Englisch
Kunst/Literatur
Philosophie
It appears in the following sentence: Das Auflösen der hierarchischen und dichotomischen Strukturen der Baum-Metapher für Wissensorganisation und Weltbeschreibung wird erstmals 1977 von den Philosophen Gilles Deleuze und Felix Guittari propagiert und eine ** verzweigte Wissensstruktur ** mit dem Begriff Rhizom neu umschrieben. My question is, is it ok, do you think, to reuse 'hierarchical' here again, or is there a better term? My mind has gone quite blank.
Proposed translations
(Englisch)
Change log
Aug 1, 2008 09:50: Gert Sass (M.A.) Created KOG entry
Aug 1, 2008 10:28: Helen Shiner changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/69048">Gert Sass (M.A.)'s</a> old entry - "verzweigte (Wissensstruktur)"" to ""diversified, differentiated, decentralized, complex (knowledge structure)""
Proposed translations
12 Stunden
Gert Sass (M.A.)
Deutschland
Deutschland
Native in Deutsch
Specializes in field
Deutschland
Precision for those who appreciate it.
Native in: Deutsch
Works in: Englisch > Deutsch, Deutsch > Englisch, Französisch > Deutsch, and 5 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
16
Deutsch term (edited):
verzweigt
Selected
diversified, differentiated, decentralized, complex
My approaches towards a detachment from tree (and related) metaphors (branching, ramified, etc.), with “differentiated” owing both to Derrida’s concept of “différance” and Luhmann’s concept of Ausdifferenzierung. “Parallel taxonomies” might be worth considering, too (based on the tree metaphor while essentially modifying it).
Let the context be your guide.
http://tiny.cc/JTOj6 (some food for thought only)
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Note added at 12 hrs (2008-07-31 23:18:19 GMT)
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Just in case it needs to be mentioned: "Verzweigt" itself obviously depends on the tree metaphor. Lacking further context, I would regard this as a weakness of the original text, but who knows.
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Note added at 13 hrs (2008-07-31 23:45:00 GMT)
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I don’t think you should abstain from sophistication in a translation (or a kudoz entry). These terms are being used a lot, even though a great deal of the audience might not be sure what they are talking about (after all, this could lead to interesting discussions). Anyways, I just tried to provide a justifiable suggestion.
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Note added at 13 hrs (2008-08-01 00:04:43 GMT)
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I think I understand the problem you are having, but would it be wise to contradict oneself within the same sentence (I think you know what I mean)? Also, I understood your question to be aiming at possible meanings/translations of "verzweigt" in the context you provided? You may want to ask another question if these assumptions should be wrong.
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Note added at 13 hrs (2008-08-01 00:24:37 GMT)
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Then you probably will tomorrow (Baum-Zweig). All the best & good night. Gert
Let the context be your guide.
http://tiny.cc/JTOj6 (some food for thought only)
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Note added at 12 hrs (2008-07-31 23:18:19 GMT)
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Just in case it needs to be mentioned: "Verzweigt" itself obviously depends on the tree metaphor. Lacking further context, I would regard this as a weakness of the original text, but who knows.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 hrs (2008-07-31 23:45:00 GMT)
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I don’t think you should abstain from sophistication in a translation (or a kudoz entry). These terms are being used a lot, even though a great deal of the audience might not be sure what they are talking about (after all, this could lead to interesting discussions). Anyways, I just tried to provide a justifiable suggestion.
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Note added at 13 hrs (2008-08-01 00:04:43 GMT)
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I think I understand the problem you are having, but would it be wise to contradict oneself within the same sentence (I think you know what I mean)? Also, I understood your question to be aiming at possible meanings/translations of "verzweigt" in the context you provided? You may want to ask another question if these assumptions should be wrong.
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Note added at 13 hrs (2008-08-01 00:24:37 GMT)
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Then you probably will tomorrow (Baum-Zweig). All the best & good night. Gert
Note from asker:
| This is really useful, thank you, Gert. Since I am translating an exhibition catalogue I need the term adopted to be evocative for the audience in question without presuming too much knowledge of philosophy on their part. Even if I don't use your sophisticated suggestions here, I know they will come up in other things I have to translate all too frequently. I am very grateful for your time and interest. |
| I seem to be dealing with an author who is struggling to explain the concepts in relation to the work of an artist with an apparently loose understanding of the philosophy. There do seem to be several places in the text which depart from the sources quoted in rather strange ways. Huge temptation to rewrite at times, but I guess that is not in the frame; just the lot of a translator. |
| Thanks, I can absolutely see their application in other contexts, but here the text is describing a rhizome as light sculpture and cannot really depart from the narrative. |
| Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean, but I am rushing towards a deadline - 1 am here - so I'll have to leave it. Suffice it to say, that I am happy with the question posed and the really helpful answers I received including yours. |
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "In the end, after a night's sleep and morning revisions, I really saw very clearly the contradiction to which Gert alluded. Although I didn't use his exact terms, I did lay stress on the meaning he suggested - hence the awarding of points in this way. Thanks very much to everybody for the clarity, for your time and interest."
6 Min.
stratified
Maybe as an alternative to "hierarchical"?
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Note added at 7 mins (2008-07-31 10:41:22 GMT)
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Sorry, forgot to include "Wissensstruktur" in the answer box
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Note added at 15 mins (2008-07-31 10:49:46 GMT)
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I think I was unconsciously trying to avoid writing (and certainly avoid saying) "stratified structure of knowledge"! "knowledge structure" solves that tongue twisting dilemna- thanks, Helen!
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Note added at 7 mins (2008-07-31 10:41:22 GMT)
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Sorry, forgot to include "Wissensstruktur" in the answer box
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Note added at 15 mins (2008-07-31 10:49:46 GMT)
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I think I was unconsciously trying to avoid writing (and certainly avoid saying) "stratified structure of knowledge"! "knowledge structure" solves that tongue twisting dilemna- thanks, Helen!
Note from asker:
| No problem, that is generally termed 'knowledge structure' - hideously - and I probably shouldn't have included it. Thanks for your suggestion. |
46 Min.
branching
I think hierarchical is definitely out (and stratified, too), because the whole point of this description is that the hierarchical view of knowledge has been "aufgelöst" or supplanted by a different (flat, horizontal - rhizomatic) one. Do some Googling for Deleuze/Guittari and rhizomatic and you'll get more info.
Wray uses French philosophers Gilles Deleuze and Felix Guittari's concept of the rhizome as his model. The rhizome is a subterranean root structure that is horizontal, decentralized and multiple, "an acentered, nonhierarchical, nonsignifying system without a General and without an organizing memory or central automaton, defined solely by a circulation of states," (5) in contrast to the tree-root structures which "are hierarchical systems with centers of significance and subjectification... an element only receives information from a higher unit, and only receives subjective affectation along preestablished paths."
http://india.indymedia.org/en/2001/12/388.shtml
Wray uses French philosophers Gilles Deleuze and Felix Guittari's concept of the rhizome as his model. The rhizome is a subterranean root structure that is horizontal, decentralized and multiple, "an acentered, nonhierarchical, nonsignifying system without a General and without an organizing memory or central automaton, defined solely by a circulation of states," (5) in contrast to the tree-root structures which "are hierarchical systems with centers of significance and subjectification... an element only receives information from a higher unit, and only receives subjective affectation along preestablished paths."
http://india.indymedia.org/en/2001/12/388.shtml
Note from asker:
| Thanks, Armorel. Yes, I had already done a lot of googling on that pair and had just not alighted upon the right term. I like your suggestion; it gets me away from loose hierarchies, etc. which was going nowhere. |
+3
54 Min.
Daniela Gieseler-Higgs
Native in Deutsch
Experienced financial translator
Native in: Deutsch 
Works in: Englisch > Deutsch, Französisch > Deutsch, Deutsch
ramified
How about that to stick with the tree metaphor?
Reference:
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Armorel Young
: yes, the meaning is exactly right and it has a suitably obscure and academic ring to it!
8 Min.
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|
Thanks, Armorel, exactly what I was thinking...
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| agree |
franglish
3 Stunden
|
| agree |
Richard Benham
: Just right!
13 Stunden
|
19 Stunden
interwoven pattern of knowledge
As I understand it the tree analogy was to be dissolved in 1977 and a new concept introduced. Thus my proposal for "Rhizom". See
http://rhizom.mur.at/TTTTrough/texte_part1.html
for actual use in context. Regards.
http://rhizom.mur.at/TTTTrough/texte_part1.html
for actual use in context. Regards.
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