Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Spanish term or phrase:
delitos graves, delitos menos graves y delitos leves
English translation:
serious offences, less serious offences and minor offences
Added to glossary by
Richard Vranch
Oct 11, 2017 17:36
6 yrs ago
49 viewers *
Spanish term
Legal Translator MCIL
Native in: English (Variant: British) 
Works in: Spanish to English, French to English, Arabic to English
delitos graves, delitos menos graves y delitos leves
Spanish to English
Law/Patents
Law (general)
So I just wanted to see how UK translators are rendering these into En (GB) after the reforma (LO 1/2015).
When it was just “delito” and “falta” I used to put criminal and summary offence for a UK audience.
What is the best rendering of these three now?
When it was just “delito” and “falta” I used to put criminal and summary offence for a UK audience.
What is the best rendering of these three now?
Proposed translations
+7
6 mins
Wendy Streitparth
Germany
Germany
Native in English
Germany
45 years experience
Native in: English (Variant: British)
Works in: German to English, French to English, Spanish to English, and 2 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
68
Selected
serious offences, less serious offences and minor offences
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Note added at 13 mins (2017-10-11 17:50:03 GMT)
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Or grave offences, lesser offences, minor offences
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Note added at 13 mins (2017-10-11 17:50:03 GMT)
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Or grave offences, lesser offences, minor offences
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Sofia Bengoa
15 mins
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Thank you, Sofia
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| agree |
Barbara Cochran, MFA
15 mins
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Many thanks, Barbara
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| agree |
philgoddard
: You can't use British terminology for Spanish offences.
16 mins
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Thanks, Phil
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| agree |
Caroline Rannamets
39 mins
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Thank you, Caroline
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| agree |
Michele Fauble
42 mins
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Thanks, Michele
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| agree |
neilmac
59 mins
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Many thanks, Neil
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| agree |
AllegroTrans
: A good,safe way of rendering this without any attempt to mushroom the classifications into GB law (UK has more than one separate legal system in any case)
4 hrs
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Thank you very much, Allegro Trans.
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| disagree |
Alex Ossa
: Wendy, I posted a long-winded answer - the CPS ref. shows that these categories proposed by you are sub-classifications of the three major crime groups (indictable only, either way and summary only) - please take a look. // EDIT: provided further ref info
10 hrs
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Who knows if the Spanish categorise crimes in the same way and that therefore the British crime groups apply?
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| agree |
Yvonne Gallagher
: safest bet
1 day 17 hrs
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Many thanks, Gallagy
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks, Wendy. I think yours is the safest option and at the same time accurate to both the ST and not too ambitious from a localisation point-of-view. Thanks!"
7 mins
Giovanni Rengifo
Colombia
Colombia
Native in Spanish
Specializes in field
Colombia
Traductores Oficiales Cali
Native in: Spanish
Works in: Spanish to English, English to Spanish, German to Spanish, and 2 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
269
indictable only, summary only, and either way offences
Please see classification of offences at the http address I provided below.
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
AllegroTrans
: No way!! You simply cannot force the system of England & Wales into another country's law in this way; a highly dangerous and misleading translation
4 hrs
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| agree |
Alex Ossa
: AllegroTrans, these categories are correct for the UK (albeit in the wrong order - indictable only, either way and summary only in decreasing gravity): https://www.gov.uk/courts
9 hrs
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-1
10 hrs
indictable only offences, either way offences and summary only offences
Richard,
Although Wendy's answer clearly has a lot of public support, there is no reference that shows where these categories are formally valid. On the contrary, at the end of this I post a reference that shows this is not the overarching category required for this translation.
For criminal court cases, the terms Giovanni supplied (although I don't think his reference is as formal as it could be) are correct, according to the UK Government:
https://www.gov.uk/courts
Here they state the three categories as proposed above.
The UK Courts and Judiciary also supports this, even more clearly:
https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/you-and-the-judiciary/going-to-...
Although I have seen and heard Wendy's proposed terms frequently, they are also part of a longer list of sub-classifications of these three major terms that equate to your (Richard) question.
As you can see from this table by the Crown Prosecution Service, there are several subcategories, such as grave offences (class A), serious offences (class B), less serious offences (class C), Sexual offences etc. (class D), burglary offences (class E), all the way down to Lesser offences (class H) and Serious sexual offences etc. (class J):
https://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/docs/annex_1b_table_of_o...
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Note added at 21 hrs (2017-10-12 14:55:51 GMT)
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Further reference on equivalence in the discussion area
Although Wendy's answer clearly has a lot of public support, there is no reference that shows where these categories are formally valid. On the contrary, at the end of this I post a reference that shows this is not the overarching category required for this translation.
For criminal court cases, the terms Giovanni supplied (although I don't think his reference is as formal as it could be) are correct, according to the UK Government:
https://www.gov.uk/courts
Here they state the three categories as proposed above.
The UK Courts and Judiciary also supports this, even more clearly:
https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/you-and-the-judiciary/going-to-...
Although I have seen and heard Wendy's proposed terms frequently, they are also part of a longer list of sub-classifications of these three major terms that equate to your (Richard) question.
As you can see from this table by the Crown Prosecution Service, there are several subcategories, such as grave offences (class A), serious offences (class B), less serious offences (class C), Sexual offences etc. (class D), burglary offences (class E), all the way down to Lesser offences (class H) and Serious sexual offences etc. (class J):
https://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/docs/annex_1b_table_of_o...
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Note added at 21 hrs (2017-10-12 14:55:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Further reference on equivalence in the discussion area
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
AllegroTrans
: these are indeed classifications in (part of) the UK but that does not make them suitable as translations in respect of a totally different legal system: a highly misleading 'translation'
4 hrs
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I understand your point, but this does not excuse using existing legal terms for a different use, nor does it mean that an equivalence can't be reached (pls see discussion). Also, pls provide references for your claim that this is not for the whole UK.
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Discussion
The purpose of any translation is to provide understanding of the source text "reality", not to transliterate that "reality" into something alien.
www.gov.uk/courts is indeed a reliable source, but not for Spain! A reasonable overview for Spain can be found at http://spainlawyer.com/guia-legal/ante-la-justicia-penal/la-...
<p><p>
There is of course a difference in how the offences are defined and calculated, but we are comparing the main categories of offences with Spain to the main categories of offences in the UK.
<p><p>
So in response to Wendy's question, both legal systems classify their offences in 3 major categories, which are are similar in content (although the approach differs).
<p><p>
The differences in legal systems do not take away from the fact that the three major crime classifications are similar in both systems, and are defined as the major crime categories by their respective legal bodies.
<p><p>
I would absolutely recommend a footnote explaining they are equivalences and not direct translations (and why), but I do not feel that a good way of getting around this inconvenience is by using terms that already have a differing existing use in the target language - hence my proposal.