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Scam - German to English, climate change in coastal marine systems
Thread poster: Becca Resnik
Katarzyna Slowikova
Katarzyna Slowikova  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 07:14
English to Czech
+ ...
Just to clear the confusion Jun 1, 2020

Becca Resnik wrote:

Hm, so I'm just curious - in your experience in France, for in-person credit card purchases, do they usually check ID?


1. I have no experience of France and never claimed to have.
2. I didn't talk of credit card purchases (we're talking about overpayment scam, right??). The fraud that I was talking of, took place at the bank counter (as part of overpayment scam). The person that related this story in this forum said the bank employee should have demanded a signature on the deposit form but didn't. I would suppose they'd also check the person's (posing as account owner) ID, since they do have them in France (official IDs issued by the state). But that's just my speculation. What I know for sure is that you would be required to show your ID in a German bank (and other countries I lived in: Poland and the Czech Rep.), if you wanted to withdraw or deposit money from/to your account at the bank counter.

Hope that's clear now. If you want to know about credit/debit card purchases: no, they don't check your ID. Mostly you just enter your PIN (4 digits), sometimes (rarely nowadays) that's not required and you have to sign the bill instead (the cashier should then compare your signature to the one on your card). The second procedure would obviously be very easy to rig for somebody who got hold of your credit/debit card.
Actually, there's also a 3rd procedure nowadays for purchases up until 20 Euros - paying with the chip on your card. No PIN or signature required, so basically a next thing to do for any thief that got hold of your card.
The same procedures also also used in Poland and the Czech Republic. And in Spain, afaik.


 
jyuan_us
jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 02:14
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
more about it Jun 1, 2020

A sammer need your bank account number and the routing number of your bank to deposit a fake check, and then ask you to wire back the "overpaid" amount before your bank finds out the check is fake.

There is no way for a scammer to take money from your bank account.

[Edited at 2020-06-01 10:44 GMT]

[Edited at 2020-06-01 10:45 GMT]


 
jyuan_us
jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 02:14
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
When you make a payment with a check Jun 1, 2020

your name, your account number, your bank's routing number, and sometimes your physical address, are all written on your check. Did you imply anybody who see your check will be able to take "every penny" from your bank account "digitally?“

If so, the banking system here in America would be very scary.


 
Becca Resnik
Becca Resnik  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 02:14
Member
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Not what you're thinking Jun 1, 2020

jyuan_us wrote:

A sammer need your bank account number and the routing number of your bank to deposit a fake check, and then ask you to wire back the "overpaid" amount before your bank finds out the check is fake.

There is no way for a scammer to take money from your bank account.

[Edited at 2020-06-01 10:44 GMT]

[Edited at 2020-06-01 10:45 GMT]


That is not the only way these scams work. The scammer is not trying to pose as you to your bank, physically or digitally. They are trying to appear as someone who is authorized to transfer our of your account, as they have the pertinent information.

1. I posted three reputable resources explaining why it is dangerous to share this information.
2. If it wasn't dangerous, why would scammers ask for this information?
3. If it wasn't dangerous, why are people constantly cautioned against it?

(Edit: For 2 & 3, I mean in reference to the articles about draining your account - not the overpayment scams.)

For instance, before my husband and I got married, we connected our bank accounts to make handling finances easier. To start transferring out of his account, I just needed his name, address, and routing and account number. Some of our first transfers between accounts (but these links were made separately, mind you) were in the range of thousands of dollars, as we were buying a house. But the banks see these like any other ACH transfer.

[Edited at 2020-06-01 11:11 GMT]

[Edited at 2020-06-01 11:19 GMT]


 
Becca Resnik
Becca Resnik  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 02:14
Member
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Well, yeah Jun 1, 2020

jyuan_us wrote:

your name, your account number, your bank's routing number, and sometimes your physical address, are all written on your check. Did you imply anybody who see your check will be able to take "every penny" from your bank account "digitally?“

If so, the banking system here in America would be very scary.


The resources I posted literally covered all of that as well. Yes, you should only give checks to reputable people or companies.


 
Becca Resnik
Becca Resnik  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 02:14
Member
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I see now Jun 1, 2020

Katarzyna Slowikova wrote:

1. I have no experience of France and never claimed to have.
2. I didn't talk of credit card purchases (we're talking about overpayment scam, right??). The fraud that I was talking of, took place at the bank counter (as part of overpayment scam). The person that related this story in this forum said the bank employee should have demanded a signature on the deposit form but didn't. I would suppose they'd also check the person's (posing as account owner) ID, since they do have them in France (official IDs issued by the state).


I was going off this: "They do have them in France, so to me, it's quite difficult to imagine how this interaction went on..."

But I now understand that you were referring back to the story you'd mentioned in the prior post. Sorry for the confusion!


 
jyuan_us
jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 02:14
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
Well, Jun 1, 2020

Anyone attempting to transfer your money out of your account will need to have your driver license and another ID (for example, your debit card) if they pretend to be yourself at the bank, or digitally, they need your username, password and the answers to your security questions. Otherwise, they will not have access to your account.

Do you give all of these to a potential scammer?

[Edited at 2020-06-01 12:35 GMT]


Liviu-Lee Roth
 
Becca Resnik
Becca Resnik  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 02:14
Member
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Post out of order Jun 1, 2020

jyuan_us wrote:

Anyone attempting to transfer your money out of your account will need to have your driver license and another ID (for example, your debit card) if they pretend to be yourself at the bank, or digitally, they need your username, password and the answers to your security questions. Otherwise, they will not have access to your account.

Do you give all of these to a potential scammer?

[Edited at 2020-06-01 12:35 GMT]


I think this some of these posts are coming through out of order, so in any case, I refer to the response I made a few posts back this morning as well as to the first set of resources I posted. In the type of scam I'm referring to, they are posing as someone authorized to transfer funds into their bank account from yours - not trying to pose as you to your own bank (even online). So it has nothing to do with your security questions or password. They just need your routing number, account number, and usually an address. [more detail in aforementioned post]


 
Viesturs Lacis
Viesturs Lacis  Identity Verified
Latvia
Local time: 08:14
English to Latvian
@Becca Jun 1, 2020

Becca Resnik wrote:
They are trying to appear as someone who is authorized to transfer our of your account, as they have the pertinent information.

Which is not a problem for people who have not preauthorized third parties to withdraw money from their account.

I posted three reputable resources explaining why it is dangerous to share this information.

I don't know any of these three sites so I have no opinion about their reputability. FWIW, at least one of them does not name any entity or person who is running it and has contributed to its contents.

If it wasn't dangerous, why would scammers ask for this information?

In a different thread, I mentioned that my opinion (though I'm neither the only nor the first person saying this) is that this merely serves to establish trust and legitimacy. Sometimes, other personal information such as passport scans are requested too (or instead of bank details). If scammers figure out a way to exploit this information (for example, when the victim has been pulled deeper in the scam and is convinced or tricked into serving as a money mule), it is a bonus for them but not the initial end goal.

If it wasn't dangerous, why are people constantly cautioned against it?

Because of an overabundance of caution (better volunteer too little instead of too much personal information)? Because the cautioners know some banks have sloppy security practices and are therefore offering advice based on this lowest common denominator? Because they are talking out of their backsides or been impressed by urban legends? Any or all of these reasons may apply for any given case.

The point I want to make is that bank account details are not sensitive the same way PIN codes, CVV codes or passwords are. It may not be very prudent to volunteer them left and right but it definitely does not equal giving everyone the key to your wallet. I believe this difference should not be disregarded.


Liviu-Lee Roth
 
Susan Welsh
Susan Welsh  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 02:14
Russian to English
+ ...
I got it too! Jun 1, 2020

I didn't see this thread until now, having already posted another comment on the same guy: https://www.proz.com/forum/scams/344054-sudden_inquiries_"for_personal_use"_possible_scam.html

I just canceled the so-called job.


[Edited at 2020-06-01 16:05 GMT]


 
Becca Resnik
Becca Resnik  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 02:14
Member
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Yesssss Jun 1, 2020

Susan Welsh wrote:

I didn't see this thread until now, having already posted another comment on the same guy.
I just canceled the so-called job.


Another one not falling for his game. I know he's still going to be richer than rich off others, but this makes me happy!


 
Becca Resnik
Becca Resnik  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 02:14
Member
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Per the Federal Trade Commission (@Viesturs) Jun 1, 2020

I think this answers a few points in one fell swoop:

On the Federal Trade Commission's identitytheft.gov website, the first step they tell you to take if your bank account information is exposed is to close your account and open a new one:

https://www.identitytheft.gov/databreach


 
Susan Welsh
Susan Welsh  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 02:14
Russian to English
+ ...
my address and phone number Jun 1, 2020

I gave the scumbag my address and cell phone number, after I had decided it might be real and I would see what happened. I had told him he had to pay the full sum by check in advance, and I would not start the job until the check cleared in my bank. Regarding the phone number, I figured if it turned out to be scam and he phoned or texted me, I could always block the call.

Have I set myself for anything hideous?


 
Becca Resnik
Becca Resnik  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 02:14
Member
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Differing opinions Jun 1, 2020

Susan Welsh wrote:

I gave the scumbag my address and cell phone number, after I had decided it might be real and I would see what happened. I had told him he had to pay the full sum by check in advance, and I would not start the job until the check cleared in my bank. Regarding the phone number, I figured if it turned out to be scam and he phoned or texted me, I could always block the call.

Have I set myself for anything hideous?


As I'm seeing from this thread, we'll all have differing opinions. My opinion is that if you have a bank you feel like you can trust to alert you, you can probably call and ask them to be very vigilant of suspicious charges. I used to be in the military, and we would all do this before deployments. Generally worked well. Otherwise, you may want to take the Federal Trade Commission's advice and close the account and open a new one. In my opinion, that's not that big a deal to take as a precaution! Pretty easy to open new accounts, especially with the same bank.

For what it's worth, I have probably given the impression in this thread that I am some insanely-paranoid person. I am not and don't feel that every number given away is going to leave you in ruins. However, the idea that it is 100% safe to share these pieces of information if you bank in the US is misinformation. People will disagree, but facts are facts.


 
borislantsberg
borislantsberg
Germany
Local time: 07:14
German to Russian
+ ...
Same in Russian Jun 14, 2020

Dear all, I was contacted by Alyssa Ronnie [email protected] with the same text in order to translate it into Russian. I was pleased to provide my bank account etc. This seemed strange to me and I googled the text and found your thread. Thank you.

Becca Resnik
 
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Scam - German to English, climate change in coastal marine systems







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